1978 XS Eleven E wont start

[XrockerS]

Hello every one first of all I would like to introduce myself. My names Marc from San Diego Ca. its my utmost pleasure to be able to be a part of this forum. I bought my Xs about two months ago nd I cant get it to start. When I first got it I just had a click from the solenoid but after rewiring the bike according to diagrams found here It now cranks but wont start. I have cleaned and gone tru the crabs only to find out I dont have stock crabs on this beauty. they look very similar but dont have the vacuum port on carb body #2, they have 2 inlet T's and a pull "choke". Vacuum advance was plugged into carb boot #1 ( I know this is wrong but its how I got it.) When I crank the bike gas spills out of the float bowls. I check my float needles nd theyre are not stuck (if I blow on the crabs upside down no air goes in). I have checked for spark nd it is there I have a range of white spark to a weak yellowish spark on my #4 cylinder. Brand new bp6es spark plugs with new high performance spark plug wires. I am running dyna coils 3.0 ohms, pod filters, 4-1 exhuast. im left thinking its a compression issue nd now the fun beggings ill try nd get ahold of a compression tester around here nd Ill post my results soon. Im thinking it may have a valve cleareance or a bend valve issue since the PO told me he hand cranked the bike the wrong way. any input is apretiated.

[BA80]

The first thing I see that's most definitely a problem is you have got the wrong carbs on there and they are flooding.

That would most definitely be where to start. I would be looking for a correct set of carbs and get them working so they don't flood on you.

You should be able to rent or borrow a compression gauge at your local parts house and get that part checked out.

The carburetors are definitely where you need to start.

There are a few XSives in and around the San Diego area that may be willing to swing by and give you a hand.

[rdmcguy]

primitive testing

Strictly as a caveman type test
You could try squirting some gas into the sparkplug holes (head) and see if you can get it to at least fire, it wont run very long though.
Also you could put your thumb/finger over the plug holes it should force it off with the compression as you turn it over.
These are rudimentary tests but it might at least give you an idea of
whether it will run at all or not.
From what you stated the carbs would be the first thing to deal with,
(but sometimes you just got to hear it run if only for a moment)
Good luck

[natemoen]

Pic of the insides and outsides of the carbs would be really helpful. Someone could have just put a #4 carb in place of the #2 and then you would only need a carb body rather than a whole rack.

But like Greg said, carbs are where you need to start.

Also, when you say you rewired it according to diagrams here, explain this more in detail.

[GLoweVA]

You also may have newer carbs on there.
Nightengale put FJ1100 carbs on his 81H and they work fine, but he still hasn't hooked up his vac advance. (no port on the #2 carb)

Here's a pic of his carbs:



Here's another angle of those same FJ1100 carbs:



and one more of the left side:



Maybe that will help you identify what you've got in there.


So, even if you do have different carbs in there, they could still work, but the first thing to do is to get them to stop overflowing!
You could bench test them to make sure the floats actually shut off the fuel flow before putting them back on the bike.

[skids]

Welcome to the family Marc.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Marc,

What rings a bell for me is your statement of 2 inlet "T"s....do you mean 2 for each carb, or 2 total...1 between 1-2 and 1 between 3-4? IF you mean 2 for each carb...then that may be part of the problem depending on how you have the fuel supply plumbed.

IF these ARE the 78-79 series carbs...but as someone stated, they may have swapped out a #4 body for the #2 so that you lost the vac. adv. port, but may otherwise still have the proper carbs......then the UPPER T fittings for these are VENT tubes....and they need to be OPEN to allow to vent.

IF they are plugged/capped, they WILL cause the carbs to flood despite your upside down air test because the floats and bowls can't equalize due to the capped/clogged vent....or worse, you have a fuel supply line connected to the UPPER "T" as well as the lower "T" where it's supposed to!?

Awaiting your reply hopefully with photos!

T.C.

[XrockerS]

First of all Id like to thank you guys for the quick responses. I haven't had time to check the forum or the XS because I just recently moved. I thought the carbs would be the problem. TopCat I have 4 t's total and are routed correctly i'm aware that the top two T's are air box connections that can be left open if you don't have the box. The carbs look exactly like the carbs GLoweVA posted. Ill post pics as soon as I get my hands back on the XS (left her at my relatives while I organize my stuff). I need to check those float levels though I know the needles seat and stop flow but I don't know here the floats are set. BA80 would you mind me asking who you might know around SD? Id definitively like meeting some XSives around here. I will get the tester soon because I really need to know what i'm working with in terms of compression. I know a few auto stores around here that would loan one out. Natemoen about the wiring this is the diagram I used. Once again thanks for all your help guys I ll see if I can get my hands dirty in the next few days.

[BA80]

BA80 would you mind me asking who you might know around SD? Id definitively like meeting some XSives around here.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6322

[XrockerS]

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6322

Sorry BA80 I meant San Diego CA. do they have those threads for all states?

[BA80]

Click on "Members Lounge" and above that forum is a sub forum "Member Locations".

[XrockerS]

carbs pop did a compression test

Hello guys hope everyone's having a good day.

I've put the bike aside for quite some time but I'm interested in getting it running asap now unfortunately it looks like I have bigger issues than I bargained for.

I got the correct battery for the bike (18amps)
I have a nice spark coming from all sparkplugs
I sprayed starting fluid in the carbs to see if I could get her running for a sec and all she did was pop out the carbs.

I got a compression tester and tested all the cylinders only to find out I have no compression on any of them. I even put my thumb on the holes and no pressure was felt.

For my test I removed all the spark plugs, fully opened the throttle before I cranked the bike for 30 secs at a time. Nothing the valve on the tester didn't move on any of the cylinders.

I opened the valve cover to see what it looked like in there and everything looked fine.



another weird thing I noticed is that if I tried to spin the crank by hand it would only turn up to this point.



I didn't wana force it to turn past that it just felt like it wouldn't. however if I crank it with the starter it spins fine.

anyone have any ideas what can be going on in there?
can I possibly have bent valves in all cylinders? :'(
any input would be greatly appreciated.
thanks.

[GLoweVA]

Sounds like bent valve(s) to me. No Compression and hard to turn.

I first found my bent #4 intake valve by valve clearance measurements. That one was WAY HUGE. (like 3-4 times the spec.)
Then I shined a flashlight into the spark hole and saw light looking in thru the carb intake boot.
YEP, that's it.

It's easy to get these things bent if one doesn't follow the proper procedures when dealling with cams and tensioners and such.
It sounds like your PO hooked you up something good.
Are your dots on the cams lining up with the arrows at 'T'?

I'd say try measureing the valve clearances and that should give you a good idea of which ones are bent.

As far as turning it by hand... You've already used the starter, so whatever damage is already done by the torque of the starter. You gonna have to turn it by hand anyway to get the cam shoulder bolts out to pull the cams so you can pull the head and put replacement valve(s) in.
It's not that hard of a job. I think the harder part might be finding valves that won't break your bank.

[GLoweVA]

.

OH, this pic scares me!
I just noticed the cams on the #4 cylinder.
Are both the intake and exhaust supposed to be so close to the same position?
It looks to me like the exhast opens just before the intake does. (as the cams rotate counterclockwise from that view)
They might even be both open at the same time.

OUCH, look just past the cam sprokets and see that the #2 cams are the same way.

That would be bad, as these heads don't have the clearance to have both valves open at the same time.

Here's a pic of what the cam degree separatation should look like:



As you can see in this pic, (Taken from the Valve Adjustment Pictorial thread) #2's cams are slightly more out of degrees than yours.

I surmise that the PO had put the cams in wrong. (or even the INtake where the EXhaust should be. BTDT)

[XrockerS]

more pics of the cams





GLoweVA thank you for the response.
here's a few more pictures of the cams. I think they just look close to each other because of the angle I was holding my phone.

I have feeler gauges at home ill check valve clearances as soon as I have a bit of time.

Is there a thread that can show me what the best method for replacing the valves is? I'm assuming I can just replace whatever valves are bent right? I have also seen complete valve sets on line. Should I just get a full set?

All your input is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.