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**TopCatGr58** · 08-22-2013, 06:38 PM

Hey there Billy,

Okay, you are using the Ohmmeter to check for continuity. You are able to get a reading of relatively low resistance...~0.3 so that shows you have good continuity. Wires have inherent amounts of resistance which increases with distance...so the longer the wire...the more resistance you will measure...ie. 0.3, 0.4 or so ohms.

Now on the one where you said you checked it from Point "A" to the socket casing....this is an incorrect measuring location.....the brown/chocolate wire is the POSITIVE line, the one that feeds the (+) power to the bulb to light it up. The Black wire is the ground that provides the return line from the bulb back to the battery to complete the power LOOP. So touching the second probe end to the OUTER casing of the bulb...is measuring THRU the frame because you are measuring the path of the black wire as well as the brown one.

What you will want to do it to remove the bulb from the socket, and then find the pin/knob/button on the inside of the socket that corresponds to the brown/choco wire connection, and then measure from Point "A" to that knob in the socket, and then you should probably find the 0.3 or so ohms value, not the higher 1.3 ohms value which would otherwise indicate too much resistance.

As to your gauge...try taking some emory cloth or sucht to the probe ends and clean them up a bit and then retest them together to see if you can get a lower ohm reading, 0.1 or even 0.0 which is really what it should read. You may also need to remove the other end of the probe wires from the gauge and clean that also, may have some corrosion preventing full no resistance continuity thru the probes.

T.C.

**jayel** · 08-22-2013, 06:39 PM

every connector (and even the lenght of the wire) will add resistance, the Y connection (soldered joint) will add resistance too, this is why clean connections and clean frame grounds are so important.... (the wire lenghts on these bikes aren't really enough to worry about tho')

**Rasputin** · 08-22-2013, 08:36 PM

Digital Multi Metres are cheap as spit. Why fart around with one that will not Zero out? You will be chasing your tail trying to do this as far as I am concerned.
Borrow or buy one that reads properly or all the united knowledge on this site can only guess at what the true readings are.
Not trying to be harsh but damn it all if a meter will not zero toss the fricking thing.

**BillyRok** · 08-22-2013, 08:49 PM

Ok, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly...

What you will want to do it to remove the bulb from the socket, and then find the pin/knob/button on the inside of the socket that corresponds to the brown/choco wire connection, and then measure from Point "A" to that knob in the socket, and then you should probably find the 0.3 or so ohms value,

...so I'm good here because I did this:

If I start at the left rear signal with a chocolate and black wire and check continuity of the choc wire from the signal socket to where it first plugs into the harness (let's call this "point A") my meter reads .3 ohms

What about the fact that the chocolate wire splits and goes on towards the hazard switch where I read .3 at the connector but also goes on towards the front left signal where my reading is 1.3 at the bullet connector just before the turn signal stem? Why would I get a good reading one direction after the split but not the other?

Now on the one where you said you checked it from Point "A" to the socket casing....this is an incorrect measuring location.....the brown/chocolate wire is the POSITIVE line, the one that feeds the (+) power to the bulb to light it up. The Black wire is the ground that provides the return line from the bulb back to the battery to complete the power LOOP. So touching the second probe end to the OUTER casing of the bulb...is measuring THRU the frame because you are measuring the path of the black wire as well as the brown one.

So you are saying that I'm wrong in thinking I'm checking from point A (end of the chocolate wire that goes back to the left rear signal) going back 12" to the bulb socket because that is NOT the direction the current travels...I'm really measuring the path away from the bulb on the chocolate wire until it path returns down the black wire to the bulb socket??

I told you I didn't understand any of this "black magic"!

**BillyRok** · 08-22-2013, 08:57 PM

Just read your post Rasputin. I'll follow TC's advice to see if cleaning up both ends of the probes will zero the meter out. If not, I'll get another one. But I thought I'd read something here before that said if the meter didn't zero but consistently read the same amount of resistance when touching the probes together then it was acceptable to use that figure as "zero" and go from there.
I wasn't trying to waste anybody's time, simply trying to follow what I assumed was sound advice...so I thank you for setting me straight.

**crazy steve** · 08-23-2013, 12:42 AM

Ok, let's clear up a few things....

First, the wire resistance is a non-factor. In the sizes and lengths on a bike (or car, trailer, or motorhome for that matter), the resistance of the wire will be smaller than you can measure unless you have laboratory-grade equipment capable of measuring down to thousandth of a ohm. Hand-held meters will resolve down to .1 ohm at best. Anything below that will show as zero. If you're showing more than your 'zero amount', that's 'extra' resistance and either dirty/damaged connectors or damaged wire (unlikely on the wire is the cause.

Next, whether or not the meter 'zeros out'. For simple continuity checking, it doesn't matter. As Billy said, if it 'zeros' at .2 ohms, anything above that is the measured resistance in the circuit. Now, it is better if the meter will zero out, as you'll get more accurate results in most cases, but it's not critical for this.

Next, getting different results depending on which way you check. I have to ask; are you using the 'diode' setting for checking? Does the meter 'beep' (they only beep on 'diode')? If that's what you're doing, the values you're seeing aren't ohms, but 'pass though' volts. In this particular instance, a slightly degraded connection could read different each way but isn't an accurate test of resistance (this would be caused by the chemical makeup of the corrosion and the polarity of the leads).

If you are using ohms and checking from point to point, then one of three things are happening in order of likelihood; you're not checking at the EXACT same points, or there's corrosion at one point skewing the results, or the meter is somehow defective. Which 'way' the leads are connected will make no difference if only wire is being checked.

Now, if I'm reading what you said right, you're checking from one point to the hazard plug, and then from the same point (NOT the hazard plug) to the turn connector and getting a different reading? If you're on the ohm scale, then what you're seeing is either a damaged wire at/after the 'split', or a bad connector at the end.

**BillyRok** · 08-23-2013, 06:53 AM

My Meter

Here is the meter I've been using, just so we are all on the same page.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Next, getting different results depending on which way you check. I have to ask; are you using the 'diode' setting for checking? Does the meter 'beep' (they only beep on 'diode')? If that's what you're doing, the values you're seeing aren't ohms, but 'pass though' volts. In this particular instance, a slightly degraded connection could read different each way but isn't an accurate test of resistance (this would be caused by the chemical makeup of the corrosion and the polarity of the leads).

Yes Steve, when the leads are touching as in the picture, there is a constant beep. Not sure what "diode setting" means or how to do it differently. Do I have the meter on the wrong setting? I'm unschooled here, maybe testing for continuity and testing for resistance are two completely different things? If so, which (or both?) should I be doing and why?

If you are using ohms

I guess not the case based on the beeping noise?

and checking from point to point, then one of three things are happening in order of likelihood; you're not checking at the EXACT same points, or there's corrosion at one point skewing the results, or the meter is somehow defective.

I am trying to check from exact point to point (to the extent it's possible to do accurately) as I thought that was the standard procedure to insure all connections are clean, there are no shorts in the wiring, and all the wires are connected properly.

Now, if I'm reading what you said right, you're checking from one point to the hazard plug, and then from the same point (NOT the hazard plug) to the turn connector and getting a different reading? If you're on the ohm scale, then what you're seeing is either a damaged wire at/after the 'split', or a bad connector at the end.

Yes I believe you are reading me right (but again I may not be on the ohm scale?). From the point where the chocolate colored wire from the left rear signal first plugs into the harness, I called this point A, and checking going forward towards the headlight bucket I get basically the same readings until I check the connection of the choc wire in the bucket going to the left front signal...this reading is higher. If I go the opposite direction from point A back over the rear fender to the bulb in the signal socket, I also get a higher reading. TC's reply concerning this if I understood correctly was that I am really measuring the path all the way back through the frame to the black ground wire in the socket, not simply the foot of wire traveling back over the fender, and so a higher reading would be normal here.

Now on the one where you said you checked it from Point "A" to the socket casing....this is an incorrect measuring location.....the brown/chocolate wire is the POSITIVE line, the one that feeds the (+) power to the bulb to light it up. The Black wire is the ground that provides the return line from the bulb back to the battery to complete the power LOOP. So touching the second probe end to the OUTER casing of the bulb...is measuring THRU the frame because you are measuring the path of the black wire as well as the brown one.

Sorry this is so wordy but just trying to communicate clearly so that the responses will be as helpful as possible to anyone who might be able to use the information.

**crazy steve** · 08-23-2013, 02:18 PM

Ok, you've got a pretty 'bare bones' meter with no diode test, so the beep is showing continuity. And I'll repeat this, the wire resistance is a non-factor. In the sizes and lengths on a bike (or car, trailer, or motorhome for that matter), the resistance of the wire will be smaller than you can measure unless you have laboratory-grade equipment capable of measuring down to thousandth of a ohm. Hand-held meters will resolve down to .1 ohm at best. Anything below that will show as zero. If you're showing more than your 'zero amount', that's 'extra' resistance and either dirty/damaged connectors or damaged wire (unlikely on the wire) is the cause.

And 'continuity' and 'ohms testing' are the same thing; the only difference is in continuity testing you're merely checking to see if you have a unbroken circuit. Testing for ohms tells you the same thing, but also tells you the quality of the circuit. The closer to zero, the better. I would not accept any reading above .3 ohm from one end of a circuit to the other as you'll have too much voltage drop.

If you get a reading too high after moving from one test point to another (with one point remaining the same), your problem is between the two different points. If the wire 'splits' (spliced to go more than one place) that could be the problem, or a bad connection at the test point. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE BARE SHINY METAL WHERE YOU TOUCH THE TESTER LEADS! Corroded connectors will give false readings, make sure they're clean. If you still get a high reading, then you'll have to split the harness and look at the wire itself for damage.

**BillyRok** · 08-23-2013, 03:59 PM

Starting to make sense

And I'll repeat this, the wire resistance is a non-factor.

Got it. And I understand the difference between testing for continuity vs. resistance now...thank you.

Quick question: On the wiring diagram I see black dots in places where the lines/wires intersect, these are wire splices correct? How are the wires spliced?

Now bear with me for a minute and tell me whether my conclusions are accurate based on what I am seeing. Let's go back to my Point A where the chocolate colored wire from the left rear turn signal first connects to the harness via a bullet connector, and I put the red probe into that connector.

This choc wire travels up the harness to splice #1 where it splits into two wires. One choc wire travels to the 6 pin connector that goes to the turn signal switch. I put the black probe into this connector and my meter reading bounces between .2 and .3 (we've already established that .2 is "zero" on my meter) so I'm good here. The other choc wire from splice #1 travels further up the harness to splice #2.

At splice #2, one choc wire continues on to the 5 pin connector for the hazards. Leaving the red probe at Point A, I put the black probe into the hazards connector and my meter again bounces between .2 and .3 so I'm good here. The other choc wire from splice #2 continues on to a final bullet connector in the headlight bucket and then travels through the stem to the front lest signal. When I put the black probe into this connector my reading is up to 1.0 here, and even if I touch the probe to the copper wires where they go into the connector I still read 1.0 so this is my problem yes? I have an issue with the choc wire somewhere between front left signal and the splice going to the hazard switch?

If the resistance is too high here, does the current not pass through and looks for another path with less resistance? I'm wondering if this could be why I see the following 4 issues:

1) hazards: 3 blink, left front stays on
2) left signal: rear blinks, front stays on
3) apply front brake: left rear signal comes on
4) turn key on: both tail and brake lights come on.

Thanks for hanging in with me on this!

**TopCatGr58** · 08-23-2013, 07:30 PM

Hey Billy,

Okay, I now see from where you are making the connections with the test meter, the actual bullet connector proximal to the bulb socket, not the bulb socket/case itself. In your previous description you said "casing"!

But if I go the reverse direction and check the choc wire from point A to the casing of the plugged in left rear signal bulb, I get .7 for a reading...is this normal and what causes this?

I reviewed the XJ's wiring diagram....a bit of a pain since it's NOT color coded, and yep, the choc. wire goes from what you describe as a second split to the front signal stalk. You've found increased resistance in that section, and as Steve said, this would only be caused by corrosion in the connector parts, not the wire itself....unless the wire were somehow damaged.

Instead of the red probe at Point A, put it at the second splice, and measure again to the front stalk socket/connector. Also, at the second split, try exposing a little wire above/beyond the actual split connector and remeasure to the front exposed wire at the signal stalk connector...if you then find the .2~.3 value, you'll know you've got corrosion in/on the connectors at splice #2, or even between the crimp for the bullet connector at the front stalk? Do some cleaning of the connectors at split #2 and remeasure.

The next thing I would measure is the resistance of the black/ground wire AT the front left signal....thinking you'll find a high value there, and the need to do some cleaning of the contacts, either IN the socket itself, where the wire attaches to the socket and the ground point....possibly the signal stalk and headlight bucket. However, the wiring diagram shows there should be a BLACK wire that connects back to the harness and not grounding thru the bucket/stalk.

I looked up your meter, found the owner's manual, it just recommends yearly calibrating, but does not say/show whether there is a way for the owner to do it. I would try removing the black test lead, and stick the end of the red test lead into where the black one connects to the unit, and retest to see if it still shows 0.2 vs. 00. If 0.2, then swap out the red and use the black, and repeat. IF still 0.2...then the meter is just out of calibration, but again like Steve said, it's mute for just continuity testing, and you can adjust your final readings by just subtracting the 0.2 from whatever you see on the readout.

From your symptoms you describe, the left front staying on while the other 3 blink makes me think of either a damaged replaced signal, wires crossed, wrong bulb or backwards, wrong socket, etc.....something is amiss with that socket/stalk.

T.C.

**BillyRok** · 08-23-2013, 08:20 PM

Hey TC,

I reviewed the XJ's wiring diagram....a bit of a pain since it's NOT color coded,

What?? The XS owners have COLOR CODED diagrams, no wonder Scott nearly went blind looking at mine.

Thanks for the troubleshooting tips, I'll mess with the meter leads tomorrow and see what happens.

From my first post:

But if I go the reverse direction and check the choc wire from point A to the casing of the plugged in left rear signal bulb, I get .7 for a reading...is this normal and what causes this?

What I was trying to describe here (poorly!) was testing from the bullet connector where the choc wire connects to the harness back to the left rear bulb socket and/or the metal side of the bulb (I called it "casing") which I guess would really be the ground? I got a much higher reading here than from Point A and moving up the harness...those readings are in my last post.

Instead of the red probe at Point A, put it at the second splice, and measure again to the front stalk socket/connector. Also, at the second split, try exposing a little wire above/beyond the actual split connector and remeasure to the front exposed wire at the signal stalk connector...if you then find the .2~.3 value, you'll know you've got corrosion in/on the connectors at splice #2, or even between the crimp for the bullet connector at the front stalk? Do some cleaning of the connectors at split #2 and remeasure.

It just dawned on me that splice you are referring to here is really a bullet connector with 1 choc wire going in and 2 choc wires coming out? For some reason when I saw the word "splice" I was picturing 2 wires soldered to the first wire...not true, eh? I follow what you mean to test that splice, I guess the trick will be to find exactly where it is inside the harness.

The next thing I would measure is the resistance of the black/ground wire AT the front left signal....thinking you'll find a high value there, and the need to do some cleaning of the contacts, either IN the socket itself, where the wire attaches to the socket and the ground point....possibly the signal stalk and headlight bucket. However, the wiring diagram shows there should be a BLACK wire that connects back to the harness and not grounding thru the bucket/stalk.

OK, I'll test from the socket back to the bullet connector where the black wire connects to the harness, it does NOT connect to the stalk or headlight bucket.

From your symptoms you describe, the left front staying on while the other 3 blink makes me think of either a damaged replaced signal, wires crossed, wrong bulb or backwards, wrong socket, etc.....something is amiss with that socket/stalk.

The front signals are both double contact sockets with dual filament bulbs, but the markings on the bulbs are different.
One has 1157 Phillips on it and the other has 12v23/8w on it...I assumed they were the same thing. I guess I could swap the front signal sockets and see if the problem moves over to the right side. I don't think the wires are crossed as they all connect with like colored wires in the bucket.

I'll update again tomorrow

**Rasputin** · 08-23-2013, 08:22 PM

Hey Billy, I was just saying that a new one was cheap so why fart around not knowing. I know diddly squat about electrickery to be honest and crazysteve helped me out a lot on my problem. I think if he says it does not matter then so be it. Do what he says as he knows his stuff.

**BillyRok** · 08-23-2013, 08:43 PM

That meter is one my father has kicking around his shop, not sure how old it is but he never throws ANYTHING away (he's 74), although a couple years ago he did take his computer outside to the driveway and smashed it with a hammer when he couldn't get it to do what he wanted!

I hope I don't get to that point with my bike.

**3Phase** · 08-23-2013, 10:00 PM

Di lamp! Boss! Di lamp!

Originally posted by BillyRok View Post

What?? The XS owners have COLOR CODED diagrams, no wonder Scott nearly went blind looking at mine.

Billy, no harm done, man! It was just way too early on a Sunday morning for a stock B&W Yamaha schematic to go crawling across the screen! <shudders>

Some of us have to make our own color schematics

but even with a black and white copy it would be a lot easier for you to read and follow if you have printer. Don't try to read and follow the equivalent of a road map of downtown Tokyo drawn to scale on a 8 1/2" x 11" postage stamp!

Print the schematic in "Landscape" orientation and use "Poster" mode to put the entire thing on four sheets of paper, then trim and tape the pages together. If you have some colored marking pens you can color in the schematic and make corrections to it as you follow along. And do you know what the best part is besides getting a better handle on the wiring in your XJ? The best part is that no one will get on your case if you color outside of the lines!

It just dawned on me that splice you are referring to here is really a bullet connector with 1 choc wire going in and 2 choc wires coming out? For some reason when I saw the word "splice" I was picturing 2 wires soldered to the first wire...not true, eh? I follow what you mean to test that splice, I guess the trick will be to find exactly where it is inside the harness.

Something doesn't look right.

Splices are shown as round black dots. The actual splice may or may not be in the exact location in the harness that's shown in the schematic but the splice is there, somewhere.

In the harness, splices are made by cutting off the insulation at the splice on one wire. The second wire (or more) is wrapped around the bare wire and soldered in place. The splices are each wrapped with nonadhesive tape and after the harness has been assembled the entire harness is wrapped with nonadhesive tape.

In the Yamaha schematics, the connectors are drawn with the same shape and pinout as the connectors on the bike. Some of them only show the wire colors next to the connectors and you have to go look at the actual connector and hold it on your hand to see what color wire goes to which hole but it's not that bad!

The front signals are both double contact sockets with dual filament bulbs, but the markings on the bulbs are different.
One has 1157 Phillips on it and the other has 12v23/8w on it...I assumed they were the same thing. I guess I could swap the front signal sockets and see if the problem moves over to the right side. I don't think the wires are crossed as they all connect with like colored wires in the bucket.

I'll update again tomorrow

I was just going to suggest swapping the lamps to see if the problem moved.

It looks like you have a mixed bag of bulbs with an 1157 12V 27W/8W and a 1034 12V 23W/8W. The 1034 is only 23 Watts and the Signal flasher/self-cancel circuit does NOT like lamp filaments less than 27 Watts.

Difference Between 1034 & 1157 Car Bulbs
By David Sandoval, eHow Contributor

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