Straight Spoke Wheel Differences?

[Eveready1100]

Had a very interesting thread posted on the Aussie site by Brett, a member who's trying to fit a set of blue spot calipers to the front of his bike using a set of adapter brackets made by Mal Pitman ( Castrol 6 Hour Hero) who was experiencing clearance problems with his calipers and the wheel spokes. These adapter plates have been used without a problem by a number of other XS11 owners, so he put up this post asking for some comparative information -

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Bretts
Collective info on wheel differences
« on: August 21, 2013, 11:32:42 AM »
ReplyQuote
One reason Mal is considering for the inconsistency in the clearance for the blue spot brakes is whether the wheels are slightly wider on some models?
I told him I would try and get some of you guys to do a little investigation. Although this is not the spot the calipers pass I reckon it is an easy and reliable spot that will give consistent results.
Measuring across the wheel using the outside of the discs as a reference point and measuring from the 100 mark I get 35mm.
Make sure you put your glasses on because it could be even less than a mill difference we are looking for. Mine came up as dead on 35 as I could tell.



If a few could do something similar with verniers even better?

Eveready1100

Re: Collective info on wheel differences
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 01:03:34 PM »

Now, that's a different line of thinking, Brett!
You may be on to something here.

Here's a pic taken with my calipers sitting on a steel rule resting flat on the discs



Just a tad different from your measurement, eh?

And just for extra relevant info-



^ Disc outer to outer, and



^ inner to inner, just in case of maybe hub width differences as well?

Model specifics are factory tubeless wheels for a 1979 XS1100 SF Special 3H3


J2
Jr. Member
**

Re: Collective info on wheel differences
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 06:24:25 PM »
ReplyQuote



34.92 for those that don't do analogue verniers ;D
1978 E 2h7

bretts


Re: Collective info on wheel differences
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 07:01:13 PM »
ReplyQuote
Thanks Guy's, sure seems that way Errol, you would think almost 7mm is a difference that would cause some trouble.
Some one with the blue spots that fit easy with the same measurement as Errol would be pretty conclusive.
Oh and remember it was Mal with the smarts not me "



Which also brings me to the question of wheel weight? We know that the swirly wheels are around a kilogram lighter each than the "normal" straight spoke wheel, but by the looks of things, special rims may also be lighter than the run of the mill Standard wheels, so if anyone's got a bare Special front wheel laying around, could they possibly sit it on the scales and post the result for us?

[jetmechmarty]

I have some XS650 bikes here. The cast front wheel is identical the the XS1100 cast wheel. I have done swaps with wire spoke wheels on those bikes and it's a direct swap with no modifications. If you use an XS650 hub, there is no issue with the swap.




The pictured Virago went from cast to spokes using an XS650 hub. I don't know how you'll do the rear.

[Eveready1100]

Hi Marty,
Mate, what we're trying to say is that it appears to be two different front straight spoke wheels fitted to XS11's from the factory. Not what other wheels can be fitted to them. Interesting to note that mine are the tubeless rims, as opposed to the tubed type fitted to the Standards. Maybe that's another difference between the two types that's been overlooked, as most of the focus has been on rim flange profiles.
The rears aren't a concern as they rarely get different calipers fitted to them.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Eveready,

My 81SH has the same measurements as the 79SF, both in spoke width of ~27.5mm, Inside rotor of 110mm, outside of ~124.5mm. I have mounted dual piston calipers on my SPECIAL with some fancy machining and a bracket, but have room for them, however, the pistons are only on the outer side, not the spoke side!

Sounds like Yamaha first overengineered the Standards spokes and then realized that they didn't need to be as thick/heavy, and changed them to cut weight, help maintain quickness with the increased emissions restrictions!?

IIRC, it was with the 79 SF that they went tubeless vs. the 78E and 79F tubed rims. So....we need a few more folks with both 78 and 79 Standards to measure and report in. We've already got the 79 and now the 81 specials, just need the 80. George...are you reading this?!?!

T.C.

[crazy steve]

Look here: http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35442

There are definite differences between the tube and tubeless front wheels. I didn't measure spoke thickness as you did, but the tube wheels are heavier castings so finding a bit of additional width doesn't surprise me.

The casting and machining on these isn't the best either, as I've seen quite a bit of mold shift from wheel to wheel. If he has the tube wheel, a swap to the lighter tubeless type will probably fix the issue....

[natemoen]

My '78 with the tube type rim also have the 35mm spokes.

[Eveready1100]

Thank you gentlemen. That's answered the question perfectly.

Just out of curiousity, would anyone have a swirly XJ front wheel they could measure and weigh for me?
The only 1100 marketed here with swirly wheels was the RH sport, and its wheels were tubed type. 19" front and 17" rear with 2 beadlocks in the rear one. Just wondering if Yamaha had sorted out the wheel specs by the time these were released.

[crazy steve]

After all this was posted, I looked closer at the tube wheels and they are wider spokes. The tube versions go straight to the hub, the tubeless ones go straight then flare out to meet the hub, making them narrower....