Pacifico LED Conversion

[natemoen]

Ok, so I pulled the sockets base plate with the contacts on it out. I taped a ground wire onto the bulb and held the bulb onto the base plate and then held the ground wire to the battery.

With the bulb on the base plate but NOT grounded the rear turn signal would light up about 50%. When I grounded the bulb it would dim down to the low glow, we'll say 20%.

So I guess it is not in the ground circuit? So what is it? I am getting lost here...

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Nate,

I'm sure Scott/3Phase will be commenting soon, but I'm getting a little lost as well.

You say you pulled the socket out...which one, the front fairing signal or the rear signal? I would put a voltmeter onto either wires and see what kind of voltage you may be seeing. The turn signal should NOT have any power going to the wires until the turn signal is actually activated. But it sounds like you have some ghost leakage into the line?

T.C.

[skids]

LEDs take a very small current to operate (like 200mamps). A lot of "stray" currents in the ground circuit makes their way to the ground cable of the battery and will go through every path that it can to get there. Think about the proximity of the tail light and running lights and the way they are grounded.

[natemoen]

Yes, it was the front fairing socket I was talking about.

I checked voltages, turns show no voltage when not on, running lights show battery voltage about 11.8.

For S&G's I flipped the contacts (turn to runs, run to turns) for the socket and all I got was bright running lights and no turn signals. But there was no glow in the rear light or the indicator light.

[natemoen]

LEDs take a very small current to operate (like 200mamps). A lot of "stray" currents in the ground circuit makes their way to the ground cable of the battery and will go through every path that it can to get there. Think about the proximity of the tail light and running lights and the way they are grounded.

Well, when I have the front led bulbs in I have 7.5 volts running in the turn signal circuit. So itis something else.

[3Phase]

No more mixed types except for the headlight?

Nate,

You're probably about ready to launch your XS into space by now, or at least the wiring system!

Since you made the earlier demo videos you now have both the front Signals/Running lights using 1157-LEDs, both rear Signals using 1156-LEDs, and both Turn indicators in the Pilot Box (Instrument Cluster) are LEDs, correct?


Do both selected Signals now flash and click correctly but there is a phantom voltage on the opposite-hand Signal (both front and rear or just rear?).


Does it still behave the same way as it did in your earlier video:

Right-hand Signal is selected, works poorly and doesn't click, and the left-hand Signal (both front and rear or just the rear?) has no phantom voltage.
Left-hand Signal is selected, works correctly and clicks, and the right-hand Signal (both front and rear or just rear?) has a phantom voltage.


Disconnect the Pilot Box (Instrument Cluster) connector to eliminate both Turn indicator LEDS from the Signal circuit and leave it disconnected temporarily.

Again: switch the front and rear right-hand and left-hand LEDs, one end of the bike and one type of LED at a time:

Left-hand LED --> right-hand socket
Right-hand LED --> left-hand socket


Again: does the problem follow the LED?

If the problem follows the LED then one of the LEDs is bad.

If the problem does not follow the LED then there is a problem in the wiring or a socket is bad.

If it's a wiring problem and not a bad LED then I have a few more ideas but I'll wait. <olde-tyme eebyle grynne>

.

[crazy steve]

ALL LED lights are 'polarity sensitive' (the 'D' is for diode...), so I suspect you either have polarity wrong someplace, or there's an internal fault in one of the light's circuit board.

Current is 'backfeeding' in from somewhere......

[3Phase]

ALL LED lights are 'polarity sensitive' (the 'D' is for diode...), so I suspect you either have polarity wrong someplace, or there's an internal fault in one of the light's circuit board.

That is correct! That's one very minor reason I still use the stock Light Emitting Resistors. It's more difficult to hook them up backwards and, yes, they use more current than LEDs but they don't really overload the system and the stock self-canceller circuit (usually! ) works even at low speed anyway.

The primary reason I still use the stock Signals is that if one lamp fails, the stock Signal circuit will not flash and I won't blithely ride down the highway all fat dumb and happy believing that I have Signals.

An electronic flasher with LEDs can pretend it's flashing something and make soothing clicky-noises even when one or more of the Signal LEDs have failed.

Current is 'backfeeding' in from somewhere......

Yes, the diodes are indeed polarized but the LED DRIVER BOARDS are not and can fail or create problems in a number of 'potentially' entertaining ways along with Nate's 'current' dilemma.

.

[natemoen]

Since you made the earlier demo videos you now have both the front Signals/Running lights using 1157-LEDs, both rear Signals using 1156-LEDs, and both Turn indicators in the Pilot Box (Instrument Cluster) are LEDs, correct?

Yes but the rear are not 1156 socket style bulbs. They are 6" oval but they are a singal brightness level like a 1156 would be. All are bulbs on the bike are LEDs except the 2 red 1157's in the stock tail light and the headlight.

Do both selected Signals now flash and click correctly but there is a phantom voltage on the opposite-hand Signal (both front and rear or just rear?).

Signals now flash nice and bright and correctly with the new 3 prong flasher. The phantom voltage is in the turn signal circuit but it is always there on both right and left sides (remeber that when I unplugged the running lights to the fairing all the phantom voltage disappeared).

Does it still behave the same way as it did in your earlier video:

Right-hand Signal is selected, works poorly and doesn't click, and the left-hand Signal (both front and rear or just the rear?) has no phantom voltage.
Left-hand Signal is selected, works correctly and clicks, and the right-hand Signal (both front and rear or just rear?) has a phantom voltage.

No, everything works correctly, phantom voltage is always there.

Disconnect the Pilot Box (Instrument Cluster) connector to eliminate both Turn indicator LEDS from the Signal circuit and leave it disconnected temporarily.

I did do this and everything still works but the phantom voltage is still there.

Again: switch the front and rear right-hand and left-hand LEDs, one end of the bike and one type of LED at a time:

Left-hand LED --> right-hand socket
Right-hand LED --> left-hand socket


Again: does the problem follow the LED?

If the problem follows the LED then one of the LEDs is bad.

If the problem does not follow the LED then there is a problem in the wiring or a socket is bad.

If it's a wiring problem and not a bad LED then I have a few more ideas but I'll wait. <olde-tyme eebyle grynne>

.

I will give this a try later today, I have to go work today. I have moved the fronts though side tonside and there is no change. I am not looking forward to pulling the lights out of the rear cause they are a PITA to get in and out....

[natemoen]

Ok, moving the LEDs around makes no difference. I am going to see if I can find a 1156 socket that I may be able to retrofit into the pacifico housings and see if it might solve the problem.

Give me all your options, I have to switch to an overnight work schedule so I have to stay up all night.

[natemoen]

Don't know why I never did this earlier but I checked for continuity in the fairing alone between the running light circuit and each of the turn signal circuits. Each of them came back with a number around 900 (whatever continuity is measured in....) when I had the LED bulbs in and then it was only like 2 with the incandescent bulbs in. I checked the voltage in the rear turn signals with the incandescents in and it showed 0.09V.

There was no continuity without bulbs in the sockets.

So I think we found the problem, I also tried a different socket and it made no difference.

Now the question....How can I fix this? Can I put a diode in the turn signal wire right up in the fairing?

[3Phase]

Nate,

It looks like you've got a couple of those 1157-LED drop-in lamps that don't play well with others. I think what they do with those is set up a couple of simple internal resistors for the two 'filaments' but there's no blocking diode between the two so there's a built-in current leak.

You should be able to find a couple of 1N5400 Series 3 Amp General Purpose Diodes (PDF).

You can use the smaller 1N4000 Series 1 Amp diodes but I'd use the 3 Amp diodes just in case you can't find replacement (or no longer want to use) 1157-LEDs. 3 Amp diodes should allow you to use regular 1157 incandescent bulbs again without digging into the harness to remove the 1 Amp diodes before the 1157 fries them.

Try to find 1N5408 1000V diodes so they don't immediately die when you accidentally short a spark plug wire to the wiring harness while you're futzing around with the spark plugs, or when it gets hammered by the inductive 'spike' from the alternator stator when you shut off the ignition switch.



The cathode (painted band) on the diode goes closest to the LED.

Use crimp-on bullet connectors to put the diodes between the main harness (Dark Green) and (Chocolate) Signal connectors and the pigtail connectors.
That'll keep the diodes out of the fairing so they don't get snagged by your gloves and sunglasses.

Put a small piece of that high temp orange silicone vacuum hose over the diodes and connectors to insulate the leads. If the diode itself starts to get hot, the silicone hose won't melt and it'll keep the diode from melting other stuff next to it into oblivion.


Have fun!

.

[natemoen]

These are the LEDs I am using

http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei...ty-24-led/157/

I guess I would prefer to keep the diodes in the fairing since that is where the problem is. I figured I would just put shrink tube over them and have them right up but the light socket.

[natemoen]

Diodes ordered.

[3Phase]

Heh, in the fairing is good and so's shrink tubing.

I'm surprised the Superbright LEDS leak, it's not like they're some unknown distributor. I have no idea why but the 1157-LEDs I got from Autozone for the Tail/Stop lights on my '80G don't 'leak'... yet.