Bottom end knock, or WHAT HAVE I DONE !!!

[POOLBOY]

When I got "Johnson", I knew that it had set for quite awhile, and I thought it had a easy life.But befor I went into a complete restoration, and spent lot's of money, I wanted to hear it run.I drained the old oil, and filled up with "what ever I had", which was SHELL 10w30 automotive oil(not rotella "T").My theory was to run it a bit, and then do a complete oil and filter change.
Well, after a rather uneventfull first run up, with a mower tank for fuel, and rudimentry clean carb's,I jumped in head first and went through the bike from front headlight,to rear tail light.The thing is, I never got to that full oil chainge.
Enter the first nice day this spring.
I took "Johnson" out tonight for it's first real ride, about 30 miles.At first, I thought I had an exhaust leak.At idle it sorta went
"fhut, fhut".It was runing fine with no abnormal sound's, but by the time I got home, the "fhut, fhut" started to become "fhup, fhup". But only at idle speed. Above that, it went away. At home I verified it was comming from the bottom end with the screwdriver against the block and listening method.I disconnected one plug at a time to try to verify if it was a specific cylinder, but it seemed to make no difference.Disgusted, I went in and had dinner.
When I went out an hour or so later, and fired it up again, the engine was much cooler, and also much quieter. I decided to do a full oil, and filter change.What I found disgusted me again.
The oil came out "dirt black". Then I removed the filter housing.The filter was completely covered with crud, and was deteriorating.The top and bottom metal covers that are on the filter fell off, and the plastic binder was crumbling.Needless to say, I cleaned everything, and installed my new filter, filter bolt, and "O" ring.
I have my 4 quarts of "Rotella T" 15w40 oil ready to install, but I need to know if I should go with a thicker viscosity, or any additives.
If I have caused serious damage because of my neglect, I will really be upset, as the bike was running great, and everything was working, even the automatic turn signal canceling unit.
Sorry about the long post, but I am really upset about all this.
Bob

[xssiveone]

Pour it in and start it up... it's the only way you are going to know if you have done any damage. And NO additives should be added. Additives don't get along with the wet clutch and will probably cause slipping. And from the look of that filter, I think I would only run it about 500 miles or so and then dump the oil and replace the filter again. I would think there is probably a bunch of crud in the engine that the new filter will trap and it might plug up prematurely on you.

[Ken Talbot]

I would stay away from additives, especially any of the friction modifiers or you'll end up with clutch and starter slippage. Without any scienfitic explanation to back it up, I always stick with 20w50 in our fleet of XSs ( Castrol in case you're interested )

[TopCatGr58]

I knew there was something else I liked about you Ken, the 20-50 grade Castrol is what I run also! Especially in the hotter months!!

Poolboy, when you first turn the key on, does the oil pressure light come on? As long as it didn't come on during your running of the engine, then hopefully it's alright and a good bath in new oil may do the trick!! If you had a connecting rod coming loose, you would hear it at rpms above idle as well as at idle. Good luck!
T.C.

[Geezer]

Originally posted by TopCatGr58
I knew there was something else I liked about you Ken, the 20-50 grade Castrol is what I run also! Especially in the hotter months!!

Poolboy, when you first turn the key on, does the oil pressure light come on? As long as it didn't come on during your running of the engine, then hopefully it's alright and a good bath in new oil may do the trick!! If you had a connecting rod coming loose, you would hear it at rpms above idle as well as at idle. Good luck!
T.C.

Me too, I run it in my Zcar and my bikes. Honda claims 20/50 is bad for starter clutches but so far so good in the Yamaha.

It's still posible that engine isn't DOA yet. I may be posting way to late at night but doesn't the XS11 have an oil presure controlled primary chain tentioner or am I thinking of something else? Anyway drain it good, fill it with fresh 20/50 and cross your fingers for luck. ;o)

Geezer

[POOLBOY]

Oil pressure light

I had put a new oil pressure sender on during the first runup, as the one in it was bad.
The light work's as it should, and I didnt see it come on during the ride, even at idle.
While I was under the bike,draining the dirt(I mean oil)I did the cam tensioner adjustment.
What does a noisy cam chain sound like?
My manual say's to adjust it when it get's "noisy",but no description of the noise is given.
I will be adding the recomended Castrol 20w50 today.
If the noise is reduced, or gone, I suspect I will soon be doing another oil change , again and again if needed, until the oil comes out clean.
Thanks for the advice,I have my fingers crossed.
Bob

[steelcat]

From the look of that filter I'd cut it open, squeeze the element in a vise & check for metals. Be sure to cut it w/ a knife & use rags around the element when cutting. We do this often w/ heavy equipment filters to check for compnant failures. If there is any metal check to see if it is iron w/ a magnet. There will be some wear metals which is normal. You may be lucky & just have to "flush the system" by doing oil changes every 500 mi or so for a whle. Fleet oils (ei: oils for diesels) have more detergents for soot, but won't help that mush w/ the sluge. It sounds like your bike sat for a long time and the old oil oxidised heavily. Hopefully, the sluge has not pluged any of the oil galleys.

[Geezer]

Re: Oil pressure light

Originally posted by POOLBOY
I had put a new oil pressure sender on during the first runup, as the one in it was bad.
The light work's as it should, and I didnt see it come on during the ride, even at idle.
While I was under the bike,draining the dirt(I mean oil)I did the cam tensioner adjustment.
What does a noisy cam chain sound like?
My manual say's to adjust it when it get's "noisy",but no description of the noise is given.
I will be adding the recomended Castrol 20w50 today.
If the noise is reduced, or gone, I suspect I will soon be doing another oil change , again and again if needed, until the oil comes out clean.
Thanks for the advice,I have my fingers crossed.
Bob

I was talking about the chain from the crank to the trans, the primary drive. One of these flopping around will make a knocking noise. I've also heard really loose cam chains sound like a bad rod bearing but that's really rare.

Doing 2 oil changes in short order to clean it out isn't a bad idea to clean it out.

Geezer

[sixtysix]

Originally posted by xssiveone
Pour it in and start it up... it's the only way you are going to know if you have done any damage. And NO additives should be added. Additives don't get along with the wet clutch and will probably cause slipping. And from the look of that filter, I think I would only run it about 500 miles or so and then dump the oil and replace the filter again. I would think there is probably a bunch of crud in the engine that the new filter will trap and it might plug up prematurely on you.

Damn....Brian stole my answer !

[eltoroloco]

Dirty oil

Just commenting on my experience with the short oil change intervals. My bike sat for about 7 years, and there must be a massive buildup of sludge somwhere becasue just after an half an hour or so of running with new lube i check the oil and it is disturbingly dark. From reading this thread i think i will need to invest in a bunch of oil filters. anyway...its real satisfying to drain all that brown, black, sludge out.....at least for me.

[MartyA]

My loose cam chain sounded like any loose chain, a sorta snapping clicking sound. When mine is adjusted properly, you can hear (well, over the carb and exhaust noise) a smooth kinda hiss.

If I had all that grunge coming out, I would drop the pan, remove the oil pump, take the copper oil return line off the back of the engine, and take the cam cover off up top. You should be able to get to and clean most of the sludge, and you can check your hy-vo chain and cam chain, and clean out most of the oil passages. Only cost you a couple of gaskets, and save a few oil changes, and give you some piece of mind.

Or

I know a guy who every fall drains his oil and puts 5 qts. of diesel fuel in and runs it till it's just warm, then drains the crud out.

[POOLBOY]

Well, what a relief !!

When I told my tail of woe at work today,even the HD guy's showed genuine concern.
I rode for 30 miles tonight after a fresh oil and filter change.
I used Castrol 20w50.
Our Farm & Fleet still stock's the oil filter for the XS.
After the ride,I let it idle (at the Sahara) for all to hear, and there were a lot of ear's listening.
IT LIVES !!
It will get a fresh oil and filter soon, again.
Some of the guy's said they might hear some slight bottom end noise, but nothing to be too concerned about.
Maby the primary chain is flopping about??
Valve train makes a smooth "hiss" sound, as expected.
Left muffler,with a hole in it, backfires a bit on "throttle off" spindown.
Plug's are a very light tan, to white colour.
No carb leak's, so far.
Octapus is setting on the bench.Dont need it.
Front fork's leak a bit at the seal's(surprise!!)
Dual front disc, with stainless lines stop you RIGHT NOW.
XS Eleven can run away from a soft tail(Sorry HD guy's)
Everyone has been very helpfull.
Love the way the garage smells.
Got bug's in my smile.
Had a good day.
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