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Brakes!!!! Not wanting to play.......

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  • #1

    Brakes!!!! Not wanting to play.......

    Ok so, I was flushing my braking system. Started with the rear brakes (they hadn't been working at all) and everything went fine, caliper started flexing and then viola rear brakes work like a champ once all the nasty stuff was removed from the system. So on to the front brakes (which had been working like a champ), removed the cover on the master cylinder, started too bleed the right side first, still no problem, then moved over to the left caliper..... A nice puff of air came out and then no worky worky. No more flexing of either caliper, brake lever became super soft and spongy. I broke loose the banjo bolt at the caliper to see if brake fluid was getting there ( yup it sure was ), then I tried again still no dice.... Broke the banjo bolt loose where the main brake line split to the two.. Yup brake fluid coming out just fine....
    Ok next step removed the culprit caliper, cleaned the while darned thing made sure nothing was plugged up cleaned the bleed valve, moved the plunger by hand, ensured all parts were moving freely and not binding. Put it all back together and still nothing right side will still let brake fluid out of the bleed valve and left side has givin me a big middle finger....

    Now what to do????
    79 XS11F.

    “Sometimes, for some people, things don’t work out as they might have hoped. Hope is a strange thing, a currency for people who know they’re losing. The more familiar you are with hope, the less beautiful it becomes.”
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  • #2
    fill the reservoir and tie the lever back let it set overnight
    where are we going, and why are we in this hand basket?
    Iowa the Beautiful Land 1980 XS1100SG

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    • #3
      Sometimes the rubber end cup on the MC plunger flips inside out if the lever is pulled in too far during bleeding. If it does this, you will get very little pressure coming from the MC, you'll have to remove the plunger and correct it, then when bleeding again, put a block of wood in between the lever and grip so it won't travel as far.
      2H7 (79)
      3H3

      "If it ain't broke, modify it"

      ☮

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      • #4
        Ok, I'm going to pull the lever back and tie it to stay over night. If that makes no difference I will "reset" the plunger rubber in the MC. Lets hope this does not turn into a nightmare for me.

        I have been cussing this bike since I got it. Last bike I had was a 2 stroke and easy to work on.
        79 XS11F.

        “Sometimes, for some people, things don’t work out as they might have hoped. Hope is a strange thing, a currency for people who know they’re losing. The more familiar you are with hope, the less beautiful it becomes.”

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by ScottBJ79 View Post
          O

          I have been cussing this bike since I got it.
          The hard times will prove to strengthen the relationship. Just keep communicating with the shrinks at this clinic and they will pull you through. There is sunshine waiting on the other side!
          "Galaxy" 1982 XJ1100J, 1983 XV handlebars, new fusebox, homemade SS wind screen and SS muffler heat shields, homemade grab bar extension and luggage rack. XS750 140 mph speedo, '81 Venture oil cooler, V-Max ACCT, Yahman YICS Eliminator, 1st and 2nd gear Dremel fix.

          Comment

          • #6
            There is sunshine waiting on the other side!
            No, the bright light is the headlight of the FAST train in the tunnel!
            We are ALL over the edge here, but the bike WILL respond to the proper sequence of repair.
            I think you have ended up with some air in the MC, and if the overnight solution does not work, pull the brake line off the MC, and use a finger to try and hold in the fluid as you bleed the MC. Once that is done, replace the brake line, and go to the farthest (left) caliper and start there again.
            I you can get, or have a vacuum bleeder, it will help.
            Oh, and WHY would you go from rust to tan????? And yes I WAS about 60 miles from you about 3 weeks ago, in Bellevue.
            Last edited by DiverRay; 05-12-2013, 11:56 PM.
            Ray Matteis
            KE6NHG
            XS1100 E '78 (winter project)
            XS1100 SF Bob Jones worked on it!

            Comment

            • #7
              I would get mine to wiggle the caliper a little and then nothing. Mine wound up being the rubber ring in the caliper that seals the piston was letting a little fluid past and air in. Maybe something happened there? Also, if you can get a big syringe and put a tube on the end of it, suck up a bunch of brake fluid push out any air and open the bleeder and push the fluid through backwards. That works great for me, it pushes all of the air out and fills the MC at the same time. Hope you get it figured out.
              Jeff
              77 XS750 2D completely stock
              79 SF XS1100 "Picky" stock with harley mufflers

              Comment

              • #8
                Pinning the break lever was a no go. I did however realize that I did no clean the banjo bolt only broke it loose to make sure fluid was comming out. I plan on pulling it tomorrow and cleaning it out as a first (or 13th) step before tearing into the MC. Although I have a feeling the rubber on the MC plunger is probably my culprit.

                On a better note, I removed the rear (chrome) portion of the rear fender, weds I plan on fabricating a new taillight and license plate mount (with storage under the seat) in its stead.
                79 XS11F.

                “Sometimes, for some people, things don’t work out as they might have hoped. Hope is a strange thing, a currency for people who know they’re losing. The more familiar you are with hope, the less beautiful it becomes.”

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by ScottBJ79 View Post
                  Pinning the break lever was a no go. I did however realize that I did no clean the banjo bolt only broke it loose to make sure fluid was comming out. I plan on pulling it tomorrow and cleaning it out as a first (or 13th) step before tearing into the MC. Although I have a feeling the rubber on the MC plunger is probably my culprit.

                  On a better note, I removed the rear (chrome) portion of the rear fender, weds I plan on fabricating a new taillight and license plate mount (with storage under the seat) in its stead.
                  Only 2 areas that could be your problem. Either the caliper has a bad o-ring to piston seal or your master cylinder piston plunger is fubar. Choose one or both and take it apart. May need a new plunger via a master cylinder kit or a caliper rebuild and piston if its pitted bad.

                  See here for caliper refurbish. http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...hlight=caliper

                  Some other advice while bleeding the front breaks...
                  1. Dont squeeze the handle all the way to the grip.
                  2. Dont let the reservoir fluid get too low
                  3. Let gravity do its thing, try cracking the bleeder and let it flow out
                  4. Agitate the lines by flicking them with a screw driver handle to knock air bubbles lose.

                  At this point I would start questioning the integrity of the o-rings in the caliper and master cylinder. Better do it right and take it all apart, pull the plunger and pistons.
                  Last edited by WMarshy; 05-14-2013, 12:33 AM.
                  '79 XS11 F
                  Stock except K&N

                  '79 XS11 SF
                  Stock, no title.

                  '84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
                  GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

                  "What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    I don't think I have seen if you have completely torn the brake system down and thoroughly cleaned it or not. I know you stated you were flushing clean fluid in, which would indicate you had cruddy fluid in there. Honestly, you really should just take the entire system off, clean both calipers, clean out all of the lines, and clean the MC. By cleaning the components I mean open them up, pull out the seal rings in the calipers, make sure you clean the slot in the caliper where the o-ring sits really well, its the crud that gets behind that ring that causes it to malfunction. It is not that tough to work on the front MC.
                    Life is what happens while your planning everything else!

                    When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.

                    81 XS1100 Special - Humpty Dumpty
                    80 XS1100 Special - Project Resurrection


                    Previously owned
                    93 GSX600F
                    80 XS1100 Special - Ruby
                    81 XS1100 Special
                    81 CB750 C
                    80 CB750 C
                    78 XS750

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                    • #11
                      The other thing to consider: It really doesn't take much time to disassemble the whole system and CLEAN it. There are not a whole lot of parts in a disk brake system. Plus, when you pull all those rubber parts out, you might find they are actually in much better shape than you thought, they just need a MAJOR cleaning after all these years, especially things like the dust shields on the calipers.

                      I know mine looked like they were cracked and falling apart, until I pulled them off and scrubbed them with soap and hot water. They looked and felt like new after that.

                      You have already wasted a LOT more time than would be required for a completed disassemble/clean/inspect/reassemble job. And afterwards, you will KNOW what is going on inside your system.
                      -- Clint
                      1979 XS1100F - bought for $500 in 1989

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