Can I run her without a battery?:Now No Spark

[Nerojk]

I apologize if this question has already been asked but there is a lot of threads to skim through so I thought I would venture here. The question is this. Has anyone or know anyone who have removed the ecm completely from the system and made this a completely off battery run system. I ask because my intention is to install a kick start as a starter backup in case of loss of battery but with the system the way it is that wouldn't even work. I also want the option to go completely without battery if I chose to remove the starter. Sorry about my running on but long story short how would I make this engine run independently with only a kick and nothing else? Cheers

[crazy steve]

Nope..... You have to have a battery in place for the charging system to work. Some of the old Brit bikes could be fitted with a 'battery eliminator', but that won't work here.

The other thing to keep in mind is the kicker on these was never intended for full-time use (which is why it was called an 'emergency kickstart' and the lever was stored off the motor). The kick shaft doesn't have the steel bushing that Yamaha fitted to virtually every other bike they sold with a kick start; the shaft rides on the aluminum cover. No room to install a bushing either....

[Nerojk]

So no way. Even if down the line I transplanted the powerhouse into a different custom frame could I get spark without the ecm?

[crazy steve]

If you're looking for a 'powerless' ignition system, that would be a magneto type. Only rarely seen anymore (think lawnmowers), nothing like that is available for the XS (or would work well if it were). Anything with an alternator has to have a battery connected to function properly.....

[fredintoon]

how would I make this engine run independently with only a kick and nothing else? Cheers

Hi Nerojk,
anything's possible; how much money you got to pour into the project?
You'd need to graft on a magneto from a 4 cylinder race car.
And buy half the guts out of a '79 or older XS11's transmission because your SG don't have the kicker parts.
And how you gonna ride after dark with no battery?
Acetylene lights like great grandpa used to ride with?
Admittedly, at the height of my frustration with Yamaha's insanely complicated wiring I was contemplating an acetylene/diesel conversion
to completely eliminate the dreaded electricity.
The design stalled at the clockwork rotating shutters to pulse the signals.

[jayel]

The design stalled at the clockwork rotating shutters to pulse the signals.

you forgot to mention the crushed coal fuel injection system Fred, did you get that worked out?

[fredintoon]

you forgot to mention the crushed coal fuel injection system Fred, did you get that worked out?

Hi Jayel,
how 19th Century can you get? Even Dr. Diesel gave up on powdered coal before 1900.
Modernist that I am and to keep the joys of balancing 4 carburettors, my design concept burned diesel fuel fed by 4 injectors from single cylinder concrete mixer engines.

[Nerojk]

Then I suppose the next option is if any of you have a PDF electrical diagram so I can figure why I have no spark. Cheers

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there NeroJk,

Okay, find Catatonic Bug's profile in the members List in the blue menu bar above here, then go to his website, and download the service manuals there.

Next, I can change the title of this thread to NO SPARK troubles so folks wil be more likely to re-read it and help. Then just post a reply about what you have done/ tried, etc., and then we will post about what to try to figure out why you don't have spark.

For instance....do you not have any spark on any cylinder/plug??

Have you checked your fuseblock and ensured you have power to the ignition system?

Next, verify you have power to the ignition plug coils. You have an SG, during starting the TCI bypasses the ballast resistor and sends a full 12 volts to the coils for easier starting. So...the B.R. can go bad, but it won't stop the bike from starting, but can keep it from running.

Also, how strong is your battery. We have found that if the voltage drops too low....~10.5 or less that the TCI/Ignition coils will not fire even though the engine can crank!

Next, the Pick up coils wires can break and prevent the triggering of the TCI and therefore the ignition coils, and again no spark....see tech tip for testing and repair processes.

Also, corrosion can build up between the spark plug cap and the actual wire preventing the current flow. Remove/separate the cap from the wire, if green corrosion found, can cut back wire till good copper, clean the cap mounting screw. Also, a resistor is inside the plug cap, measure resistance, should be ~5k ohm, if much higher, corrosion on internal parts and internal resistor...can take apart thru plug end, inspect, measure resistor, if found still too high, replace cap.

That can get you started on the troubleshooting process.

T.C.

[Nerojk]

Thanks T.C. I'll go through that list this weekend. Also was reading another thread and read about the tip over switch. Before I tried starting I had removed the tank to clear it out of some rust sediment, could I have accidentally tripped that switch?... As to at least one of your points the battery I had in it was eukered and I couldent get more then ten ten and a half volts into it but to roll it over I was simply hooking it by booster cables to my car. Would that not run the system? Or should it run its own independently? Cheers

[DiverRay]

With a bad battery, jumper cables will not work! BTDT more than once! The bike is picky, so START with a GOOD battery INSTALLED. I would clean up all the GROUND wires, and use NO-OX or anti-seize on all the ground bolts and connections.
I you buy a new battery, follow all instructions! flooded cell batteries NEED to be charged SLOWLY for about 8 hours or they WILL fail early.
I would also unscrew the spark plug caps, cut about 1/4" off the end of the wire, and screw the caps back on. Be SURE to use new plugs, as old plugs may have a carbon shot to ground you cannot see.
Welcome to the madness.