Giving up on the 80SG in the Philippines

[hanger10]

Howdy again all. This may be one of my last posts, Im just about ready to give up! Im in the Philippines, and the mechanic Im using is about the best Im gonna get here, and if he cant get this solved, Ive had it. Ive sunk too much money in this thing, dont think I wanna sink anymore! I bought an 80 SG 4 yrs ago. Fixed the PU wires, shimmed the valves, have only put on maybe 300 miles since doing the valves. Have bought new voltage regulator, 3 ohm coils, new plug wires. Finding out that the valves needed shimming was a long drawn out process, but with all the help from this forum, we finally got that solved. Bike ran great till about 3 mos ago. Took a while, but he figured out it was the diaphragms, and fixed them with glue, and it ran super again for about a month. He told me it was temporary, so I expected more probs. Well, it started missing pretty badly again, and I got new diaphragms from home. I had to drive the bike to his shop on one cylinder (around 20 miles). He put in the new diaphragms, and I went to get the bike, but it was missing on one cylinder under low throttle. Doesnt matter what speed or rpm, it runs great until I let off the gas and just use a little throttle to keep up speed, it starts missing. We have isolated the cylinder, but just cant get it stopped!!! Got a lot of great suggestions from here, and followed up on them. Checked for vacuum leaks, went throught the carbs with a fine toothed comb looking for crap from the glue, synched the carbs. Its not a plug wire, and electric has been checked. Hes had the bike for two weeks trying to find the prob. I talked to him today, and he said he found the problem. He said I needed new valve seals, and piston rings. The bike isnt smoking, and he said the compression was fine. Hes Filipino, and it hard to understand alot of what hes saying, but that just dont sound right to me! He hasnt had the valve covers off yet, and I just dont think thats what it is, and Im really hesitant to invest any more time or money on this damn thing. I love it, but Ive had it!!!! Any of you think the seals and rings could be the problem??? Well, I wont bore ya anymore, just wanted to thank you for all the help I have received here. Im gonna think long and hard for a couple of days about what to do! I will let you all know. Thanx again for all the help, and Ive tried really, really hard on this end, but there has to come a time to cut your losses!!! Take care all, and mabuhay from Liloan, Cebu, Philippines!!

Randy

[donebysunday]

Sorry to hear that Randy

If you do any of your own work there are a couple things that would just cost you your labor ?
Remember you are on the low speed ( pilot jet ) at low speed or idle.
Check the compression yourself.
Check that plug on the missing cylinder and compare it to the others.
Switch the plugs to see if the missing moves to another cylinder.

Maybe more to check yourself ?

Let us think a bit please !

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Smoke

The seals would cause smoke at start up and some plug fouling over time. The rings would cause smoke most of the times and loss of compression. I don't see how either would cause your problem. It sounds like electric or fuel to me. Are all your grounds clean? The glue on the die's could be a cause as well, as these carbs are the most sensitve I have seen. Do you have the fuse box upgrade? good luck with your bike, once fixed, they can be great fun

[Cuda 69]

my bike smokes out of the right bank when I first start after sitting for some time(a month) but I don't have any skipping on the engine,and my engine doesn't use oil.I would think this guy is trying to pull a fast one on you or he doesn't have a clue what he's doing.Please don't be offended,there are a lot of bike mechanic's who are clueless on these bikes. As has been said,it sounds like it's either electrical or carbs,my bet is,that glue got caught up in a tiny area in the carbs and is giving you that skip.or could be a ground. I don't know any mechanic where I live who would put super glue in a carb in the first place,my mechanic would get a ear full from me and be made liable for the damage.Just my 2 cents.Good luck and hopefully you can get this fixed.Maybe you would want to go check the wires in the pick up coils,I know you said you had them fixed,but it is possible one's broke again. The thing that makes me think of the carbs is,you had problems with the diaphams,he did a temporary fix,and then it started again.Make sense? Try and find a good carb guy,or tear them apart yourself with the help of this forum.

[CaptonZap]

Randy, I don't remember under what circumstances you are there, but Hanger 10 leads me to believe you are on some sort of military base. If that is so, go down to the motor pool and ask the nice NCO, who knows all the grunts, who is a competent mechanic, and likes to work on old machines. The Day Room might be another place to float the idea that someone who is interested would be welcomed to step forward to help you.
Most guys who are competent like to solve mechanical problems, and it gives them an alternative to boozing it up and chasing the chicks at the local Club.

Uhh, oh, never mind. You're screwed.

Just remember, whoever you sell it to will figure it out, you will find out that it was something relatively minor, and you will hate yourself for giving up so soon.

Do you have any mechanical ability, since with a knowledge of basic principles, the XS is not that hard to master. Mostly, it is a case of putting it back the way it was when it came out of the factory. Going through the tech tips on this site is a good way to get a basic knowledge base.


Good luck, CZ

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Randy,

Don't give up! You say you isolated the missing cylinder...HOW??? As stated, swapping the plug wires 1-4 and 2-3, if miss still on same cylinder, then it's CARBS! As stated by others, something has gotten into the pilot circuit causing the miss in low throttle input. You....and yes we mean YOU, not your mechanic needs to take the carbs back apart to clean out the pilot circuit, the pilot jets, and even the main jet nozzle and such. I don't recall if you put on in line fuel filters, but I would suspect that the fuel availalble there isn't the cleanest..same for the condition of your gas tank! It doesn't take much to clog the pilot circuit. Also using carb cleaner in the fuel frequently can help keep the carbs clean.

Owning a vintage machine like the XS11 is not for someone that has to rely on a mechanic to do the work....as you've discovered it gets costly real quick. If you don't really have the desire to learn how to work on the bike yourself, then perhaps you're right in cutting your losses and get a NEW BIKE! But they aren't cheap either, both in initial cost, insurance, and maintanence, especially if you have a shop do it!

T.C.

[DGXSER]

All I will add to the advice you have gotten is that I agree there is no way your rings are bad if you have good compression numbers.

I get your on a small island and all, but you need a new mech if this one says you need new rings due to the miss you have when all four have good compression.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Retired sheetrock hanger, living in the Philippines

Looking at your profile "Retired sheetrock hanger, living in the Philippines" and you bought a XS bike And it now seems like you have no idea how to work on one, or even guess what is wrong with your bike Why do you have one

+1 on not paying anyone to "TRY" and fix your bike, waste of time and money Move on to a bike that is Philippnes frendly for service, what ever that is, or learn from the post here how to fix your bike. They are far from "rocket science" in fact they are as simple as a 30 year old bike can get

[Petersg_99]

I actually work with Filipino engineers remotely from the states.

Americans have a different view of life and work than the Filipinos do. They seem to value social interaction and teamwork quite a bit more than Americans do.

There's no doubt that Filipinos are as intelligent, hardworking and honest as Americans are, some more so than others, but one thing I've noticed is that they don't really feel comfortable telling you you're full of s*#^ even when you are, they have ways of kind of hinting that you're on the wrong track.

Of course you live there, so you're probably more familiar than I am with this, however, have you listened closely to your mechanic and tried to read between the lines a bit?

Maybe he knows more than he's saying, but is too polite to tell you. I know it sounds crazy, to an American, but they don't generally want to make you loose face (to coin a Japanese term).

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Sorry

I am sorry about that, a fellow XS owner might be looking for help with his bike over seas. I just know that most mech. today can't fix anything like these bikes, just IMHO. This site can teach most to save time on what is up, they are simple and I have found that almost "all' problems for running right are, electric or fuel related, just IMHO

[WMarshy]

Sorry to hear that Randy

If you do any of your own work there are a couple things that would just cost you your labor ?
Remember you are on the low speed ( pilot jet ) at low speed or idle.
Check the compression yourself.
Check that plug on the missing cylinder and compare it to the others.
Switch the plugs to see if the missing moves to another cylinder.

Maybe more to check yourself ?

Let us think a bit please !

All good suggestions...

Take the plug wire and move it to see if it follows the wire or stays with the plug/cylinder.

If the #1 cylinder isnt firing switch the wire with the #4 cylinder and see if the miss fire follows. The same can be done with the #2 and #3 wires... then just ride it a little, stop and check the plug to see if it is wet from not firing...

This will rule out electrical problem (you might want to move the plugs to different holes after you test the wires to see it you have a faulty plug too but unlikely). Once you rule out spark you can focus on fuel delivery assuming compression is good. Dont give up, if money is short then it might be time to say goodbye to your mechanic and start doing some troubleshooting yourself. We can walk ya through it.

[Geezer]

I go plus one on what TC said and try to do as much work on it yourself. It's possible the mechanic has missed stuff or isn't as good as you think he is.

I had a 80 special with tons of miles on it and it's valve guide seals were almost non existent. It would smoke like a chimney when I first fired it up but once it was warm, it was clean running. So I wouldn't be quick to tear it down. Also you should be able to do your own compression check. Unless that cylinder was more that 10% lower than the rest, I would look else where for the problem.

Like TC said you can swap 1 and 4 or 2 and 3 plug wires. Do this to the effected cylinder and maybe a new plug on that one cylinder. If the problem doesn't move, it's not electrical.

It's possible that the pilot get for the hole is screwed up. It could look clean but be bad. Now for the bad part, the new ones Yamaha sells have the same number, look almost the same but flow about 5x more fuel. So don't just go buy a new one. Maybe someone here has an extra one they could send you. I probably do but my spares are all pack up from my move and it could be a year before I find all my stuff.

Most of us here could fix this in an afternoon but you're so far from us guys that know the bikes, it's not like one of us could drop by...

Tony

[jetmechmarty]

IIRC, this bike was running great. You took it to your mechanic to have the slide diaphragms replaced. He did that and now it doesn't run. If that's how it went down, your mechanic screwed it up.

Now, did he replace slide diaphragm assemblies? Did he install them backwards? Did he replace just the diaphragms and not index them at all? Did he work at a dirty bench and contaminate them. You're going to have to examine what he did. You're going to have to do it yourself.

[hanger10]

I bought the entire assembly, slides and all already assembled. Ive taken the bike to another good friend that worked on it since I got it. I was there, and he did a compression check. 3 of the cylinders varied slightly from 7.8 to 8.5:1. One varied 8.5 to 9.0:1. He thinks that is ok, but wanted me to ask here and see what you all said. As long as the compression is ok, he is just gonna systematically go through everything, including the suggestions here. He is a good mechanic, he is very thorough, and has lots more patience than I do. I told him to take his time, Im in no hurry. Ive showed all of your posts here to him also. Just let me know if the compression sounds ok, and we will take it from there!!! Thanx again all, so very much for all the help!!!!! I love it here in the Philippines, but it sure is a pain with this bike!!!!

Randy

[Rasputin]

Can you convert those numbers into PSI as that is what we are most familiar with? The one that is inconsistent with the others may have a valve problem or even a synch issue which will affect the results. Was the compression test done with spark plugs out and open throttle position? Was it warmed up or cold? Does the numbers change when oil is added through the spark plug hole? Just a whole myriad of questions I would like to ask and know.