bolts

[Nightengale]

I am thinking about changing out my engine bolts and acorn nuts and such, with either stainless or painting them black (not sure which yet ). My question is can i change them one at a time and retighten as i go. Can it be done that way without breaking any seals, or am i gonna have to redo the gaskets?

[fredintoon]

I am thinking about changing out my engine bolts and acorn nuts and such, with either stainless or painting them black (not sure which yet ). My question is can i change them one at a time and retighten as i go. Can it be done that way without breaking any seals, or am i gonna have to redo the gaskets?

Hi John,
you can paint the fasteners black in situ with a little paintbrush if you clean them good.
Swapping them out for stainless one at a time without triggering an oil leak, mebbe, mebbe not.
How about you first buy the appropriate gaskets (if you don't need them now you'll need them eventually) then try the one at a time swap.

[natemoen]

You should be fine one at a time. I would suggest stainless!

[DAVINCI]

Do it with the motor stone cold and you'll be fine. re-torque to the proper setting for all of them. Watch the head nuts, IIRC, they need oiled threads?

[Nightengale]

Hi John,
you can paint the fasteners black in situ with a little paintbrush if you clean them good.
Swapping them out for stainless one at a time without triggering an oil leak, mebbe, mebbe not.
How about you first buy the appropriate gaskets (if you don't need them now you'll need them eventually) then try the one at a time swap.

I already have some yamabond, just in case. I might just go black and paint them in place, but the acorn nut need to be replaced. Could they be replaced one at a time? I am just not trying to tear the engine apart to relace 4 nuts.

[TomB]

To me its standard engineering practice called "Hotbolting"

We replace bolts periodically on steam/water/HP air/nitrogen/solvent pipework flanges, columns/stacks and machinery by replacing one at a time on live plant without breaking seals on joints/gaskets.

Go for it. Just a quick note on Stainless, if using a stainless nut and bolt, use A4 nuts with A2 bolts to reduce Gauling and use copperslip, and when changing the end cap (chromed cover) bolts on the middle drive use 12.9 high tensile bolts/screws, this cover isn't just a cover, its the bearing retainer on a bevel box thats high loaded by the action of bevel gears, if you insist on using stainless use 316 A4 M8 socket head capscrews.

Tom

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[trbig]

OK.. I'll bite. WTH is an A2 and A4 bolt/nut, and what is copperslip? You boys across the pond need to get with the times and use modern English and such..


This is the cheapest I've found the chrome acorn nuts. I don't know how much shipping is, but it's only $1.53 per nut. Look for the M10x1.25. Just so you know, it changes the outside diameter of the nut to a 15mm I think. Sorry, but it's been a while since I put them on.

http://www.afchromebolts.com/catalog...%20Chrome.html








You can even be on the cheap side and buy just 8 of them. Nobody would ever be able to see the inner 4.

[skids]

You can even be on the cheap side and buy just 8 of them. Nobody would ever be able to see the inner 4.

Good point!

[Nightengale]

OK.. I'll bite. WTH is an A2 and A4 bolt/nut, and what is copperslip? You boys across the pond need to get with the times and use modern English and such..


This is the cheapest I've found the chrome acorn nuts. I don't know how much shipping is, but it's only $1.53 per nut. Look for the M10x1.25. Just so you know, it changes the outside diameter of the nut to a 15mm I think. Sorry, but it's been a while since I put them on.

http://www.afchromebolts.com/catalog...%20Chrome.html







You can even be on the cheap side and buy just 8 of them. Nobody would ever be able to see the inner 4.

thanks for the help. ill check them out.

[TomB]

OK.. I'll bite. WTH is an A2 and A4 bolt/nut, and what is copperslip? You boys across the pond need to get with the times and use modern English and such..

Hehehehee

Us boys get with the times? we joined the rest of the planet and went metric in '73

Sorry for the jargon, I'm used to talking at work where everyone is on the same daft level as me ......and I suffer from "The Knack"

Quality stainless bolts are 316 grade and of 316 A4 and A2 available, A4 are better quality than A2 so A2 are cheaper, so you buy A2 bolts (which are the expensive part of a nut/bolt pair) and A4 nuts. Using different grades mean that possible gauling of the nuts and bolts when tightened/undone is reduced, gauling is the cold welding/ripping of the steels.

Copperslip or trade name Copaslip is a copper/graphite based grease used on the threads to further reduce gauling (sometimes spelled Galling). Copperslip is also useful for Carbon Steel fasteners for corrosion reduction so bolts cans be undone after years in corrosive atmospheres (read - British weather )


HTH
Tom

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[trbig]

Us boys get with the times? we joined the rest of the planet and went metric in '73

See there, only took you a thousand years plus. Give us some time...

[donebysunday]

I am thinking about changing out my engine bolts and acorn nuts and such, with either stainless or painting them black (not sure which yet ). My question is can i change them one at a time and retighten as i go. Can it be done that way without breaking any seals, or am i gonna have to redo the gaskets?

Don't know about the 1100 but did it anyway on my LH.

The XS650 the manual says to torque the head bolts at 5000 miles. Very few ever did so it became a habit for me on 56 650s. Only one I did not do blew a head gasket on it's 3rd run.
So when I got my LH I used 18K gold on the head bolts and valve cover allen heads, anti seize on the threads. A rather light ouch with my torque wrench to spec. Just do them in reverse of the assembly procedure, one at a time.

[TomB]

Yep! quick ain't we? hehehe

You lads keep buying these Metric bikes and you'll get there through the back door, kicking and screaming? or quietly sulking?


On a more serious note, I'm miss quoting the bolts, A2's are generally 304 stainless, these have less tensile strength than 316, a 316 bolt has roughly the same tensile strength as an 8.8 CS bolt, so pretty strong but not in the 12.9 league.

As an E.G. the middle gear bevel box bearing retainer chromed end cap has 12.9 tensile strength cap screws originally, this is why I previously said use A4 minimum. Using A2 cap screws in this cover could result in them stretching and allowing leaks and gear clearances to be wrong, or worse unlikely but still possible, catastophic failure when accelerating hard.

[TomB]

.......and I bet theres a few of you that have replaced engine screws with stainless going out to look at them right now



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[ViperRon]

Re-torque of the headbolts is supposed to be part of the tune up and general checks on these bikes. I check mine when I change oil or sync carbs. I agree its a good procedure to check them I have seen them loosen on bikes. As for the specification for the head bolts I am not sure the torque values on these bikes is all that high to worry about stripping but metal swells and shrinks with heat using the wrong tensil strength may make them prone to getting loose.