Replacing Pick-up Coil Wires

[TADracer]

This is the later routing... both pairs of wires come in at bottom, both pairs go anti-clockwise.


Presumably Yamaha was made aware of the pickup wire problem and changed the routing to try to solve the problem.

My bike has the later routing but still I find a weak point is right where the wires come into the compartment (right by the metal clip on the right-hand side of the picture). Seems alot of flexing takes place right there. Last time I have three wires spliced so far and all are in that vicinity.....getting kind of crowded.

All is working well right now (knock on wood) so when I decide to get into this little project I will take a bunch of pics for ya'll.

[Rasputin]

Just wondering if anyone has ever tried to get replacement pick up coils from another supplier as in non Yamaha. Not trying to hijack the thread but as many who know will answer here it seems reasonable to throw it in the mix. I have an idea that just won't go away on these and the supplier I have in mind invites new ideas. As far as I know they do not currently stock any motorcycle pieces, but maybe they could if other bikes have the same issues as we have. The problem would be that if only the XS11's are affected it will probably be too small a market for him to waste time/money on.

[bikerphil]

Might be able to adapt some pulsar coils from old car distributors, they would be free in your pocket from the boneyard, JAT. The problem I could see being with other model p/u coils would be the wrong resistance value for our TCI's.

[Rasputin]

I was thinking of a more "buy em off the shelf" thing. Pertronics makes point replacement parts so no more points ever. Just put in the product they have and no more hassle with points. As we already have the reluctor they provide, it may be easy and cheap for them to make a set that would fit our bikes. If they happened on a new market where bikes other than ours would need these products then they may be more inclined to provide such. They make many types of pick up coils for points replacement for cars and trucks and even for older Bobcat's and fork lifts. I imagine, if they could tap into a motorcycle market such as points type bikes they would be a bit eager to follow it up.
Just something I have been thinking about so we could have parts available even if the pick up coils wore at the spot where we can not fix it. The wires they use are very similar to ours flexibility wise. Not sure what material they use though. Mostly just want input as to whether anyone has tried this or is interested in complete pick up coil replacement parts before I try to contact them.

[Cuda 69]

I would be interested,I've fixed my pick up coils twice,and I fear there close to being junk.They work great right now,but i'm not putting alot of miles on it.

[Rasputin]

I guess another question would be at what point would users want the silicone type wires to end? Same place as originals or do we ask if they can go further (ie as far as those wires presently go). Would the apparent (present) heat shield and outer coating be a necessary thing? Would anyone be interested if they made a more original type version or an upgraded one? Basically I intend to contact these people in one way or another but want input before doing so.

[Rasputin]

website for those who think I am not crazy.
http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor/default.aspx

[CaptonZap]

Might be able to adapt some pulsar coils from old car distributors, they would be free in your pocket from the boneyard, JAT. The problem I could see being with other model p/u coils would be the wrong resistance value for our TCI's.

Phil, I don't think that would be an issue. What you are after is a pulse that is 20 to 35 volts peak to peak. That is what ours put out. The resistence values that the manual specifies is just what they read, and if other coils put out the voltage with the original reluctor, they would work.
If anybody wants to see a picture of the pulse as seen with a DSO, PM me your e-mail address, and I will get one to you.

CZ

[bikerphil]

Zap, that's good to know about ohms not being so important. After a quick search, there are several generic P/U coils available as low as $19 apiece, might be able to find one about the same size and drill a couple holes in the backing plate on the bike to make them fit. They seem to be made for ATV's and golf carts, JAT

[crazy steve]

The Pertronix units are actually complete, stand-alone ignitions; you would eliminate the TCI. This wouldn't work if you had a '81 or XJ as you'd lose the 'electronic' advance these feature.

Issues would be if all this would fit under the ignition cover, what to use for a reluctor, and possibly if the electronics can take the heat generated in the enclosed space.

[CaptonZap]

Zap, that's good to know about ohms not being so important. After a quick search, there are several generic P/U coils available as low as $19 apiece, might be able to find one about the same size and drill a couple holes in the backing plate on the bike to make them fit. They seem to be made for ATV's and golf carts, JAT

OK Phil, here is what to check for. Get an AC VOM, set it on 20 V, pull both connectors on the TCI, put the leads on either the top or bottom two leads in the 4 prong wiring harness side connecter, take the spark plugs out and crank it over. You might want to test your standard setup, just to check my numbers. (I'm going off numbers from the test machine, and it doesn't go below about 3000 rpm, so I was guesstamating on the voltage as the thing coasted to a stop.)
You should get around .4 V AC at crank speed, and 1.2 volts at 5800 rpm. (Figure out how to accomplish that. )
Now I can hear somebody saying "I thought you said that the peak to peak voltage of the PU coils was 20 to 30 V, depending on reluctor gap."
Yep, I said that, and most AC VOM measure RMS Volts, so there is the discrepancy.
The pulse is quick, high, low, and back to zero in a short amount of time.
If you come up with some coils that screw to a standard backing plate, or get them to fit your plate, and want to send it to me, I can test them on the machine.

Later, CZ

[TADracer]

Hey, you hijacked my thread! Just kidding.

I actually would rather just replace them with something more modern and new and at a price most of us can handle. But aside from changing wires and connectors I am no electronics guy so that is why I was just thinking of changing the wires out.

But having said that I realize that over the course of 30+ years the coils (while solid state) do field-up and collapse literally millions of times. Newer technology would be my choice as long as it does not involve a whole bunch of electronics mods.

[Schming]

website for those who think I am not crazy.
http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor/default.aspx

Crazy ? Just what is sanity ?

I run the Pertronix Ignitor and 45,000 volt, Epoxied, Flame Thrower Coil in my '71 VW 1600 Dual Port engine.



Still uses a rotor to distribute spark



There's approx. a foot of wire leads on the pickup coil



The reluctor is positioned by the square dist. shaft



There are 4 magnets evenly embedded in the reluctor



1 screw installation compared to points...priceless





Pickups possibly could be riveted to the XS11's backing plate



JAT - Would it be possible to use just one pickup in our bikes like is used in my 4cyl. VW engine ?

[mmatches1]

Wire size

Just wondering what size wires are recommended for the XS1100 rewire. I found several options on Ebay but they vary from 12 gauge to 18. They advertise them as flexible silicone wire. Cheers, Doug

[crazy steve]

Go with the smallest size. There's no current to speak of involved, the smaller wire will be more flexible.