High / Low Beam Switch

[Schming]

I'll probably want you to review this at some point to see if I didn't accurately represent anything, but I can probably take it a little bit further.

The radial angle and placement (centering) of the tang, that the switch handle screws to, seems to need adjusted.
Also the square bottom bore hole on the left is 6.15mm in depth, from the contact face side and is one size, #7 drill bit.
Right side bore hole is a straight taper but what you have would work.

Otherwise, that's awesome, great job, wish I knew how to do that.

Here's some better pics (PMP)
:

[CRXSi90]

Thanks for the additional pictures. I haven't gotten to spend more than 5 minutes or so on this since the weekend. CAD is a great tool and helps me think through stuff like this.

I know I have a few things that are kittywhompus. What I was struggling with when I left off was how to go from measurements to the "ideal" part. For example, I think the rectangular holes for the contacts were meant to be perpendicular to the ends of the entire arced part. And they probably meant for the contact to be positioned square with respect to the motion of the piece. It's looking like I might not get a chance to dive back into it again until this weekend.

Then the next challenge is going to be figuring out which things (like square corners) can be sacrificed in order to be able to make the part with tools found in a typical machine shop.

Do you have any way of estimating the angle that the two ends make? I can try "measuring" from the image with the ImageJ software.

Is the screw a metric machine screw that has a standard thread, or was it just a self-tapping screw?

[Schming]

Thanks for the additional pictures. I haven't gotten to spend more than 5 minutes or so on this since the weekend. CAD is a great tool and helps me think through stuff like this.

I know I have a few things that are kittywhompus. What I was struggling with when I left off was how to go from measurements to the "ideal" part. For example, I think the rectangular holes for the contacts were meant to be perpendicular to the ends of the entire arced part. And they probably meant for the contact to be positioned square with respect to the motion of the piece. It's looking like I might not get a chance to dive back into it again until this weekend.

Then the next challenge is going to be figuring out which things (like square corners) can be sacrificed in order to be able to make the part with tools found in a typical machine shop.

Do you have any way of estimating the angle that the two ends make? I can try "measuring" from the image with the ImageJ software.

Is the screw a metric machine screw that has a standard thread, or was it just a self-tapping screw?

Here's some pics:







...and the self tapper, which is 3/8" in lenght x #6 :

[CRXSi90]

Some progress today. I'm not quite sure what you mean by a straight taper for the hole for the ball.

I made some assumptions about the shape of the contacts. What I have shown could be made with a 2mm diameter end mill, though it would be tricky.

Realistically, the next step is probably for me to have the part in hand to refine it and make sure nothing was overlooked. Unfortunately, it's probably going to be March-April until I can make that happen.

I made a 3D PDF of this, but it won't upload to Photobucket. Not sure if this Dropbox link will work for you.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h2k2qj8qcwqvwm5/switch%20assembly.PDF

[crazy steve]

I wonder if it would be easier to resin-cast this out of plastic? There's some pretty trick stuff out there these days, and not all that expensive...

Taking a mold off the broken part would be the trickiest part.

[CRXSi90]

I wonder if it would be easier to resin-cast this out of plastic? There's some pretty trick stuff out there these days, and not all that expensive...

Taking a mold off the broken part would be the trickiest part.

Steve, that's an interesting idea. I'll have to put some thought into that. Making a mold from an existing part is one option, but another option would be machining a mold from scratch. It would be easier to simulate how their mold is built up.

I wish I knew more about materials and was able to identify what material was used for the original part. The bubbles in the center are kind of odd...it makes me wonder if it is some kind of cast resin as opposed to an injection molded plastic.

Anyway, I'll put some thought into it. It would be easy enough for me to experiment with just using some 30-minute epoxy or something.

[Schming]

Straight Tapered Hole - size of the ball on contact side with straight walls angled/tapered to a smaller diameter, to retain the ball, in the length of the hole.
In your pic below, I see a hole, the dia. of the ball, bored from the contact side most of the way through and it stops at the smaller bore size which retains the ball...which BTW is perfectly fine and probably less involved.



Contacts are perfect


In this next pic the tang needs to be centered:





Like the original:



CRXSi90, I'll mail you my parts if you'd like but I'll need them back, as they're my only spare, whenever you confirm the needed info.

Also the link doesn't work for me.

Do you think Teflon would be a sufficient material for these switches ?

[CRXSi90]

Straight Tapered Hole - size of the ball on contact side with straight walls angled/tapered to a smaller diameter, to retain the ball, in the length of the hole.
In your pic below, I see a hole, the dia. of the ball, bored from the contact side most of the way through and it stops at the smaller bore size which retains the ball...which BTW is perfectly fine and probably less involved.

Yep, that's right; it's just two drill bits of the sizes you specified.

Contacts are perfect

Thanks. There are details like the height of the hooks/barbs, and the width of the part which sticks down the slot, but don't worry about measuring those for now.

In this next pic the tang needs to be centered:
Like the original:

Shoot, that's how I had it originally, but one of the pictures had me fooled, so I changed it!

CRXSi90, I'll mail you my parts if you'd like but I'll need them back, as they're my only spare, whenever you confirm the needed info.

No, I don't want that responsibility or to put you in that situation. I'll just wait until I can get mine. Now that I think about it, there's a motorcycle scrap yard that's 20-30 miles from me. I don't think they have any XS11's, but they just might have another Yamaha of the same vintage that I could grab a control from and use as a pattern. I wouldn't be able to get mine until I make the 300 mile (600 round trip) to where my bike is stored now.

Also the link doesn't work for me.

Okay, don't worry about it. It was a 3D PDF, which is kinda cool because you can look at the part from all directions, and all you need is Adobe Acrobat Reader for software.

Do you think Teflon would be a sufficient material for these switches ?

I don't have much experience with Teflon, so take my comments with a grain of salt... Teflon might be more difficult to machine than some other plastics because it is more slippery. I've had my hands on some 3/8" or so teflon rods, and I was surprised at how flexible/"rubbery" they were. While initially I thought that was a bad thing for this project, maybe it would provide just enough flexibility to keep them from breaking when jarred.

I do have a little experience with Delrin/acetal. It's generally pretty friendly to machine, and it's mechanical properties are okay for most situations. I also have a boat-load of acrylic which wouldn't cost me anything (a plus), and I can't imagine would be much worse than the original. If I don't go the route of the molded piece, I'll probably use the Acrylic for a test-run even if the final ones are made of a different material.

One more question...just trying to understand what's going on here. The little Rectangular piece is an electrical insulator that keeps the contact from shorting out to the housing through the spring and ball, right?



My next step is going to be putting a little thought into the resin casting idea. Physically, the part is very amenable to molding, but I'm just not sure how I would go about building a mold with the tools at my disposal. I can see where a rotary table would be a very useful thing for getting angles set properly.

[Schming]

"The little Rectangular piece is an electrical insulator that keeps the contact from shorting out to the housing through the spring and ball, right? "

Correct and it lays in on top of the spring under the copper contact.

Hey Kevin, I just found the old left HiLo switch from the XS650 I sold two days ago and it's the same as the XS11's internally, although I'm not sure about the wiring but that shouldn't matter for what your goal is.

So I actually do have two spares.

If you want it, I'll contribute to the cause. That way you'll have all the heights of the barbs and whatnot.

Send me a PM with your address.

P.S. Your CAD drawings are the "BOMB"

[CRXSi90]

There are two options I've found for casting: polyester resin and epoxy. It's looking like epoxy might be the way to go.

• It's more water resistant
• It's less brittle
• It's more readily available to me in smaller quantities (small tubes @ hardware/home improvement stores).

Going to put some thought into what it would take to cast these. I could probably make one mold out of aluminum by milling out the pocket and turning the pegs where the springs/ball goes. The downer of casting is the cycle time to get multiple parts out of the mold. I'd have to mix the resin in small batches, any quantity more than one switch would be wasted. Then fill the mold and possibly vacuum degas. Then wait for it to set up (30 minutes or more). Still need to put a little more thought into it.

[CaptonZap]

There are two options I've found for casting: polyester resin and epoxy. It's looking like epoxy might be the way to go.

• It's more water resistant
• It's less brittle
• It's more readily available to me in smaller quantities (small tubes @ hardware/home improvement stores).

Going to put some thought into what it would take to cast these. I could probably make one mold out of aluminum by milling out the pocket and turning the pegs where the springs/ball goes. The downer of casting is the cycle time to get multiple parts out of the mold. I'd have to mix the resin in small batches, any quantity more than one switch would be wasted. Then fill the mold and possibly vacuum degas. Then wait for it to set up (30 minutes or more). Still need to put a little more thought into it.

If you do go with epoxy, there is stuff called colloidal silica, (fumed silica) that adds body to the epoxy and gives it a bit more strength. Milled fibers are even better for strength imparted, but are a bit more of a problem cast.
A supply house for fiberglass materials will have mold release, fillers, and advice. CZ

[CRXSi90]

If you do go with epoxy, there is stuff called colloidal silica, (fumed silica) that adds body to the epoxy and gives it a bit more strength. Milled fibers are even better for strength imparted, but are a bit more of a problem cast.
A supply house for fiberglass materials will have mold release, fillers, and advice. CZ

No progress to report, but I've been exposed to using glass beads as a filler. What I've used in the past was glass bead blasting media.

I do believe you about the improved strength, but I am curious how much the improvement is. Glass filled resin = 150% the strength of unfilled resin, or ???

I'm not sure what kind of shrinkage can be expected from epoxy, but I would think a filler would help with that.

I was a little worried about having all these scratchy balls of glass molded into the piece, but maybe it wouldn't be an issue.

[CaptonZap]

No progress to report, but I've been exposed to using glass beads as a filler. What I've used in the past was glass bead blasting media.

I do believe you about the improved strength, but I am curious how much the improvement is. Glass filled resin = 150% the strength of unfilled resin, or ???

I'm not sure what kind of shrinkage can be expected from epoxy, but I would think a filler would help with that.

I was a little worried about having all these scratchy balls of glass molded into the piece, but maybe it wouldn't be an issue.

The type of filler dictates the strength added to the mix, and after that, the ratio of epoxy to reinforcement being the next thing to affect ultimate strength.
Which is why the big boys use vacuum bags to squeeze the laminate together, squeezing out the excess resin. This assumes that the reinforcement is stronger than the plain resin. For that reason, the milled fibers would be stronger than the fumed silica, just a bit harder to cast smoothly. If you send me a self addressed, stamped envelope, I will send you some milled fibers to experiment with. PM for details.
As you note, potting resin is a different substance than laminating resin. But in the small quantity that the piece will take, and its surface area compared to volume, I don't think that it will be a problem using regular laminating resin.
Shrinkage, especially with a filler, is negligible. A more pressing problem is mold release. PVA is recommended, applied over a carnauba waxed surface.

The glass bead thought should be re-thought, in my opinion.
Just as railroad beds do not use round river rock gravel for a base, but rather use jagged edged aggregate of various sizes, so should the filler be chosen for it's resistance to displacement. The idea being that the jagged edges lock in place with each other, while the round stones can roll and displace more easily.
So to, can the micro spheres. In my experience, they are used mostly for a light weight filler, that is not expected to sustain any load. Sort of like Bondo on a diet.

Definitely an interesting project you have going, it will be interesting to see how it works out.
Later,, CZ

[CRXSi90]

I put a little more thought into it today. Nevermind the lack of the actual switch tab...I was just quickly throwing down the idea.

[Schming]

Lookin' Good

That CAD is amazing