Second gear slip

[tbschupsky]

I've been hearing a lot lately about the second gear issue that these bikes can have. How common is this problem? I bought a junker 1979 XS1100 a couple years ago and I have it completely stripped down to just the engine in the frame. Here is my question: Is it possible the see this damage by just removing the bottom engine cover? If so, maybe now would be the time to flip it over to do the fix rather than finding out after its all back together riding down the street. I did ride it a little when I first bought it and went through the gears without any problems. Thanks.

[crazy steve]

It is absolutely possible to see if the trans has this problem with the oil pan off. Look here: http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5090

If you go down to 'part two', you'll see where the damage occurs. The pictured gear is rather extreme; but if these 'corners' are rounded even a little, you have the problem. Not to say this edge should be razor-sharp, but if it looks worn, it is....

Some will say to do the 'fix' no matter what you find, but if it still looks good I'd leave it. While a common problem, not every bike suffers this. These bikes need a very definite 'shift' when changing gears, being sloppy or shifting without the clutch can cause this.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there TB,

How many miles were on the bike before the teardown? IF cloes to 50K, then like you said, you've got it this far down, won't take much more to get into the tranny and do the fix now! You were able to test ride the bike, but unless you were able to really get into the throttle hard you probably didn't put enough stress to elicit the weakness if it's there. It shows up under harder acceleration in 2nd and sometimes in 1st as well. If you have a Dremel, or a die grinder, the stones aren't too expensive, it's mostly time to take it apart, grind it, put it back together...swap the washer if you want, etc.! THis way when it's rebuilt, you'll know that it will be able to handle any amount of throttle you want to put to it!

Hopefully you were planning on getting into the clutch and at least replacing the old sprung springs with heavy duty ones. Inspect the frictions and clean up the steels as well!

T.C.

[Rasputin]

If you are that far into it, I would definitely pull the pan and have a real good look. It is actually pretty simple to do with the fix thread as guidance. Some have less rounded edges before others that cause the skipping. Take some time and maybe post a couple of pics of what you see. Far easier to do it now. I have had one that would not even turn the wheel while on it's center stand due to the rounded edges of the gear.
This is the number one reason PO's have changed motors. Cheaper to buy a parts bike and swap than have YAMMY fix it. Like has been previously said it may not show up unless you really got on the throttle during your test ride.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31895 shows some of my experiences with the second gear.

I am currently dis-assembling a bike that I thought was good to go. Looked at it after having all the parts painted etc and decided that the frame did not look good enough. I will say that if I had the foresight I would have painted/powdercoated it right off the hop rather than take it apart again. I think you may be better off to check now rather than regret later.
Also please check the shift forks for wear as that is a hard part to come by and is a side affect of the gear issues be it second or other gears. Many PO's try to hold it in gear and the shifter forks become badly worn to the point of being unusable.
Your choice for sure but my money would be on a really good check, if any doubt then do the fix.

[DGXSER]

A few years ago, a group of local XS Owners and I went to help a fellow XSive with an engine swap. For him, checking valve clearances was almost voodoo black magic. He had tore up the old engines head, valves, and a cylinder.

to the point of the thread, I made the suggestion we open the "new" engine up and fix the gears, shim the valves, check the clutch, before we installed it in the bike. MY suggestions were over riden, and the engine was installed. We wound up fixing the gears, shimming the valves, only to find one was bent, so head removed, new valve installed.

My thoughts, do it now.

[crazy steve]

Yep, all this is waaay easier when the motor is out...

[jetmechmarty]

If it all looks fine, I think I would just do the washer move.

[tbschupsky]

Thanks for all the comments and advice. I picked the bike up for next to nuthin and it didn't have a speedo so who knows what the miles on the engine are. I never had a chance to ride it hard when I got it cuz the engine was running poorly at that point. I cleaned the carbs and got the engine to run nicely but the brake systems were not installed so it still couldn't really be ridden. I'm hoping to flip it over in the coming months and have a look. Will post some pix too.

[crazy steve]

There is one disadvantage to doing the 'fix'; the OEM gears/shift dogs are all hardened (but on the surface only) so grinding them removes this hardening, making them more prone to wear. If you use 'good shifting' practice (firmly and deliberately shifting into each gear) it doesn't seem to be a problem, but sloppy shifting can quickly cause this to return. Grinding the 'back angle' on the dogs helps a lot, but you still have a relatively 'soft' wear surface. The loss of this hardened surface is why when the stock gears start to go bad, they get worse quickly...

[JerseyJon]

Welcome

Sounds like those guys make sense.

All I have to add is welcome to the site. Good to see another xsive from the garden state. There are very few of us.

[jetmechmarty]

There is one disadvantage to doing the 'fix'; the OEM gears/shift dogs are all hardened (but on the surface only) so grinding them removes this hardening, making them more prone to wear. If you use 'good shifting' practice (firmly and deliberately shifting into each gear) it doesn't seem to be a problem, but sloppy shifting can quickly cause this to return. Grinding the 'back angle' on the dogs helps a lot, but you still have a relatively 'soft' wear surface. The loss of this hardened surface is why when the stock gears start to go bad, they get worse quickly...

This is why if it were my bike, I would do just the washer move. That is, unless I found excessive wear upon initial inspection.

When my 2nd gear went away, I bought new gears and did the washer move. Hey, that's just me, YMMV.

[bikerphil]

After doing the washer move, so far it's been 40K+ miles on each of my 11's with no skipping. Prior to knowing about the washer move, I would get only about 15-20K before repair on 2nd gear was needed again, YMMV. I highly recommend moving the washer.

[Yamdaha]

After doing the washer move, so far it's been 40K+ miles on each of my 11's with no skipping. Prior to knowing about the washer move, I would get only about 15-20K before repair on 2nd gear was needed again, YMMV. I highly recommend moving the washer.

Did the washer FIX on my "new' 11 and on my 79 XS750. Both 78 ( 750 and 11) still going strong so far without a FIX needed.

.

[tbschupsky]

Where is the procedure for just the "washer move" everyone is talking about? Guess I'm kind of keeping my fingers crossed that this is all I will need. Is it embedded in the grinding thread somewhere?

[bikerphil]

Where is the procedure for just the "washer move" everyone is talking about?

It's pretty straightforward, just move the washer from one side of 2nd gear to the other side.