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  • TCI repair

    Glory be! My first resurrection.
    A few months ago, one of the members sold me a TCI and when it got here, it would not fire one of the coils. Being an honest fellow, he returned my money and told me to throw it away.
    I have a hard time throwing things away, so it sat there. Until I decided to see if I could figure out what was wrong.
    After trying the re soldering that Davinci recommends, and not having any success, I took the board out of the case and started investigating.
    There were no signs of burnt or broken components, and the solder joints all looked good, so it was apparent that there would have to be a more "in depth" method used for trouble shooting.
    Using a DC motor, (which had to have the brush leads reversed so as to rotate in the right direction), I mounted a set of pickup coils and the reluctor on the shaft end, and wires leading to the 4 conductor plug that goes in the TCI.
    A 2-pack of burglar alarm batteries supplies 12.5 +/- volts to a switch that supplies power to the TCI and two 1156 bulbs that show about three ohms resistance to the TCI. I added a 1 ohm resister to cut down the heat produded by the bulbs, but feel that the load is about what the coils would supply. (In the original bread boarding, I used both coils and the spark plugs hose clamped together, but it was a little cumbersome). All of the stuff is now housed in an ammo can, which weighs about what a ammo can full of ammo weighs.
    Power in and coil power out were wired to the 8 prong TCI plug.
    Two switches are used to imitate a broken pickup wire to each coil.
    I took my good TCI, and hooked it up and took scope pictures of the signals of the string of transistors that power each coil circuit.
    After getting a base reading of traces, I took voltage readings at the base and collector terminals of the transistors.
    Replacing the good TCI with the defective one, and checking the progression of the pickup coil signals through the circuits, I found an anomaly in transistor Q3.
    I un soldered it, and soldered in a substitute that does not have the same pin out, but has about the same characteristics as the original. (Some guess work done there. The replacement transister looks like it has to piss, standing there with it's legs crossed. ).
    Plugged the TCI back in, turned on the test rig, and hot snot, it works!
    Now, I just have to wait until the replacement transistors get here, after their trip on a slow boat from China. I can then resolder the board into the case and use it.
    Still have to figure out how the timeout circuit works, the one that shuts the coil output off after 5 seconds when there is no input from the pickup coils. I'll investigate that tomorrow.
    I'm a happy camper.
    Now, what would be nice, is an electrical guy that can look at the schematic and tell me how this thing works.
    I'll try this "heysuse" TCI on my bike in a day or two, just to make sure that my test rig gives me good readings. (I need to re-sync the carbs anyway)
    Yahoo! IT LIVES, IT LIVES.
    CZ
    Last edited by CaptonZap; 11-24-2012, 07:41 PM.

  • #2
    I tip my hat to you CZ and hope to grow up to be just like you

    John
    John is in an anonymous city with an Alamo (N29.519227,W-98.678980)

    Go ahead, click on the bikes - you know you want to...the electrons are ready.
    '81 XS1100H - "Enterprise"
    Bob Jones Custom Navy bike: Tkat brace, EBC floating rotors & SS lines, ROX pivot risers, Geezer rectifier, new 3H3 engine

    "Not all treasure is silver and gold"

    Comment


    • #3
      Good job CZ! That's some good work you have done. Dang, I feel so mundane when I ask you about needle seats and floats! I'm tying up valuable brain power with that stuff.

      I'll ask jwhughes3 those questions from now on.
      Howard

      ZRX1200

      BTW, ZRX carbs have the same spacing as the XS11... http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35462

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by CaptonZap View Post
        Glory be! My first resurrection.
        Using a DC motor, (which had to have the brush leads reversed so as to rotate in the right direction), I mounted a set of pickup coils and the reluctor on the shaft end, and wires leading to the 4 conductor plug that goes in the TCI.
        A 2-pack of burglar alarm batteries supplies 12.5 +/- volts to a switch that supplies power to the TCI and two 1156 bulbs that show about three ohms resistance to the TCI. I added a 1 ohm resister to cut down the heat produded by the bulbs, but feel that the load is about what the coils would supply. (In the original bread boarding, I used both coils and the spark plugs hose clamped together, but it was a little cumbersome). All of the stuff is now housed in an ammo can, which weighs about what a ammo can full of ammo weighs.
        Damn! Who let Tesla into Frankenstein's lab! That is about the funniest trouble-shooting article that I have read in a long time.
        Skids (Sid Hansen)

        Down to one 1978 E. Stock air box with K&N filter, 81H pipes and carbs, 8500 feet elevation.

        Comment


        • #5
          Aww, shucks guys, twarnt nothin.
          I just hate to see repairable stuff thrown away.
          CZ

          Comment


          • #6
            Wanna fix the bits and pieces that make up the kill switch on my project 80G, can't bear to throw it away!

            Seriously, that is some great ingenuity integrated with engineering CZ. Just pack your scope for the next Rally, and you can do some campfire diagnosis after the daily rides.
            Howard

            ZRX1200

            BTW, ZRX carbs have the same spacing as the XS11... http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35462

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by skids View Post
              Damn! Who let Tesla into Frankenstein's lab! That is about the funniest trouble-shooting article that I have read in a long time.
              ..........until you've seen him in action...........scarey stuff.......
              81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hbonser View Post
                Wanna fix the bits and pieces that make up the kill switch on my project 80G, can't bear to throw it away!

                Seriously, that is some great ingenuity integrated with engineering CZ. Just pack your scope for the next Rally, and you can do some campfire diagnosis after the daily rides.
                Well Howard, if you can get the bits and pieces up here without loseing any of them, I'll bet I can come up with a detent ball.
                Actually, I think the trouble shooting can be done with a multimeter and a schematic, although I saw a digital pocket scope advertised for $75 plus shipping. Had single sweep, recording, and USB porting.
                Wish I believed in Santa Claus.

                Did you get the project bike to crank?
                Later, CZ

                Comment


                • #9
                  Believe it or not, but it's true... Found that freakin' little detent ball. However, there are 3 screws that hold the kill switch in place, the two that hold each wire, and a 3rd screw that goes through the housing into the bottom of the switch. I have all 3 screws, but the dang threaded metal keeper molded into the bottom of the switch that the 3rd screw threads into has flown the coop.

                  Being that the switch came apart in muliple pieces, and that I found the detent ball, I am determined to get this switch working. BUT need to figger' out how to get that 3rd screw back in the game.
                  Howard

                  ZRX1200

                  BTW, ZRX carbs have the same spacing as the XS11... http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35462

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hbonser View Post
                    Believe it or not, but it's true... Found that freakin' little detent ball. However, there are 3 screws that hold the kill switch in place, the two that hold each wire, and a 3rd screw that goes through the housing into the bottom of the switch. I have all 3 screws, but the dang threaded metal keeper molded into the bottom of the switch that the 3rd screw threads into has flown the coop.

                    Being that the switch came apart in muliple pieces, and that I found the detent ball, I am determined to get this switch working. BUT need to figger' out how to get that 3rd screw back in the game.
                    It depends on which one it is. There were three screws in my 80G, but only two in the 79F, which may be why it broke. So depending on which one is lost, two may do.
                    Anyway, AAA Metric has almost any sized nut there is, and a little lathe work on a coupler nut would probably get something that the epoxy would be happy to hold in place, and if you don't reef down on it, it would probably hold.
                    Or, since you seem to be lucky at finding stuff, it is a brass sleeve with diamond shaped cross hatches all around the out side. About 3/16 inch in diameter, and about a quarter of an ich long. Go for it, eagle eyes.
                    All of the forgoing is subject to revision if and when I actually see the parts.
                    And I'm still asking about the starter.
                    CZ
                    Last edited by CaptonZap; 11-25-2012, 10:14 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Did a double check for the diamond checkered "nut" and no dice. Your idea got me going in the right direction, so I'll figure out a creative way to secure that 3rd screw.

                      For the starter, I jumped the posts on the relay with a thick piece of metal, and it cranked fine. So, in the process of getting things taken apart, etc, something has come amiss. I have repeatedly made the circuit with the wire ends from the kill switch, but the starter button will not make it crank. Fuses are good.

                      So, just a matter of digging into it with the multmeter (which I can't find at the moment ) and starting the process of elimination.

                      Later.
                      Howard

                      ZRX1200

                      BTW, ZRX carbs have the same spacing as the XS11... http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35462

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hbonser View Post
                        For the starter, I jumped the posts on the relay with a thick piece of metal, and it cranked fine. So, in the process of getting things taken apart, etc, something has come amiss. I have repeatedly made the circuit with the wire ends from the kill switch, but the starter button will not make it crank. Fuses are good.


                        Later.
                        One other thing to check is that when you took the kill switch out, you may have disturbed the starter button wiring, since they inhabit the same housing. You might check the connections to the start switch. Make sure it can make to ground. In fact, turn the key on, and short the blue/wht wire at the start button to ground. Use a jumper or something. If it doesn't crank, odds are there is something wrong with the ignition switch/ wiring. The switch supplies power to the brain box and starter solenoid.
                        Also, don't throw that float bowl away, I've got an idea that may save it.
                        Later, CZ

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'll PM you...
                          Howard

                          ZRX1200

                          BTW, ZRX carbs have the same spacing as the XS11... http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35462

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hbonser View Post
                            Did a double check for the diamond checkered "nut" and no dice. Your idea got me going in the right direction, so I'll figure out a creative way to secure that 3rd screw.

                            For the starter, I jumped the posts on the relay with a thick piece of metal, and it cranked fine. So, in the process of getting things taken apart, etc, something has come amiss. I have repeatedly made the circuit with the wire ends from the kill switch, but the starter button will not make it crank. Fuses are good.

                            So, just a matter of digging into it with the multmeter (which I can't find at the moment ) and starting the process of elimination.

                            Later.
                            Right-side control assembly had to be grounded to bars to work on 81's.........not sure bout 80models. Found out after putting a set of fully adjustable Heli-Bars on my Venturer.(powder-coating is a buggar to emery off).
                            81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ahhhhh... Motoman might just be the wisest guy on this forum at this moment... In terms of knowledge anyway... You are already a wise-guy in general!

                              I was trying to crank the bike with the switch pod hanging there, so I will give that a try tonight and put it on the bars.

                              With that said, your 81 had tubular bars as stock, just like all the previous years, yes?

                              Thanks Motoman!
                              Howard

                              ZRX1200

                              BTW, ZRX carbs have the same spacing as the XS11... http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35462

                              Comment

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