Minimized wiring and smaller battery?

[slicky5150]

Hello everyone, I bought a 79 XS Special a while back and am in the process of rebuilding, modifying it. I really like things simple so the wiring had to go. I am completely rewiring the bike without all the gizmos. It is amazing how much is not needed (in my opinion) on these bikes.
Anyway, electrical is not my strong suit so I thought I would tap into the wealth of knowledge on this board. When running the circuits is there any benefit to running seperate grounds or is a common ground just as good. This is to say can the lighting grounds connect to the ignition grounds or is there some reason not to do this.
I am also planning on just using the kicker so I will not need the starter. Does anyone have any idea the rating of battery I can get away with. Obviously I will not need the cranking amps for starting. I would assume I need to know the load of the ignition and lighting. i have tried looking this up on the internet but it seems to get a little deep for me, what can I say.
I must say I have been reading these boards for awhile now and have really learned alot. This is an invaluable source of information for someone new to the bike. Whenever I get stumped this is the first, and usually last place I go. The love that you all seem to have for your bikes is very apparent.

Thanks for any help, Chad

[skids]

There is the concept that more ground wires means more opportunities for failue, but that is one component at a time. The corrilary (sp?) is that fewer ground wires is like putting all of the eggs in one basket. They do all go to a single wire at the battery anyway! If you want to remove the reserve lighting unit, here is how I did it:

http://home.earthlink.net/~sidskids/rlu/rlu.htm

I also do not like the mandatory headlight and removed the latching relay and installed a light relay with an on/off switch. It may be a little more complicated when compared with the original circuit, but it is more practical.

[John]

My friend, if electrical is not your strong suit, then you may be in for some deep doo doo. Somebody a lot smarter than us designed this system the way it is for a reason. There is a lot of wiring on these bikes, and most of it is needed in my opinion. A few things can be eliminated, but I wouldn't do away with the starter. Have you tried to kick that thing over? In cold weather? You'd better have a lot of ass, especially if the bike has good compression.
What gizmos are you talking about? I ride an 80 Special, and about the only gizmos are the headlight reserve and self cancelling turn signal. Those I have deleted, only because I couldn't find a new cancelling flasher. Low fuel light? Godsend. Hazard (4 way flasher) lights? Just unplug 'em.
Not to blow my own horn, but I am good with electrical, as that is part of my job, and I really wouldn't mess with the harness, other than to clean the connectors, and replace suspect wires.
You will need all of the ground wires as nothing seems to be case grounded on these bikes. Just make sure all of the grounding points are clean and corrosion free, and you shouldn't have any problems. I have had my 80 SG since 91, with very few problems.

Godd luck with what ever you decide to do with it.

[TopCatGr58]

Rewiring XS

Hey there Chad,

A fellow Xsive and Electrician did the same thing you are doing, he rewired the bike, replacing the harness completely. He also found a factory designed defect in the wiring regarding the charging system. His handle is "Rainbowshooter", name Dave. He promised to make a tech tip and diagrams on how he did it, but then he got himself a '03 Yam YZFR1 to play with, and apparently has had too much fun riding. You might be able to drop him a PM/email and he could possibly send you some info on what all he did and how!!

BTW, if you'll update your profile, at least mentioning what city/state you live in, you might find that there are XSives nearby that would be willing to drop by and lend a hand!?

I, too, suggest you leave the starter system intact. The battery is rated to around 50 CCA for just that reason. The Ign. box will not function properly if the voltage drops to below 10.5 IIRC. I don't know how many Amps it or the coils draw but it's fuse circuit is 10A, but the lights alone can be calculated by taking the total # of watts and dividing by 12v to get amps.

55 headlight, tail run 8x2, brakes 27x2, turn 27x2 per side, ~4 per instrument/gauge light. SO an estimate of 4 gauge lights, bike stopped with brakes on and turn signals puts it at close to 180watts=15amps alone for lights. Then add the charging system, ignition, horns. The oem size battery is fairly cheap at Walmart and others places, usually under $40.00.
Good luck, HTH.
T.C.

[slicky5150]

Hey thanks guys. Skids you are right, the grounds all go the frame in the end. I had to laugh at how obvious that was after I read it. I guess I was just up to my neck in wires yesterday and not thinking straight.

John, I have a three prong flasher, you are welcome to it if you want it. I suppose gizmos wasnt the right word as alot of what I am eliminating serves a very good purpose, I just dont want it. I removed the ballast resistor, accel coils so its not needed. Emergency shut off switch, reserve lighting, light checker, all the indicator lights. I am going to use an aftermarket speedo and oil pressure gauge, no tach. Turn signal and accessory circuits as well. I know this is a bit extreme but it sure neatens things up. The harness is completely new so I shouldnt have any electrical gremlins to track down, knock on wood.

I noticed rainbowshooters post and did e-mail him about a week ago but havent heard anything. Probably too busy with that new bike, not that I blame him. Just wanted to compare my diagram with his. It does seem that the rectifier is wired before the ignition switch. I was scratching my head for awhile on that. Got on here to see if anyone had ran across this and sure enough.

You guys are probably right about the starter. I may be adding it back in, see how it goes. Thanks for the numbers Topcat. I am going to need a sealed battery as I am moving it into the tail. Using a zx6r rear tail, but there is room for the big battery, thats probably best, might need it for that starter.

thanks alot guys, you sure helped me in my moment (one of many) of brain fade, Chad

[skids]

Re: Rewiring XS // topcat

Topcat, we just have to get that tech tip on fixing the charging system. Can you bug your buddy???

Originally posted by TopCatGr58
Hey there Chad,

He also found a factory designed defect in the wiring regarding the charging system. His handle is "Rainbowshooter", name Dave. He promised to make a tech tip and diagrams on how he did it

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Skids,

I sent him an email to the 2 addresses I have for him, asking him to at least provide the info on that charging circuit defect. Will let you all know as soon as I hear something!

T.C.

[Geezer]

Before you consider removing the electric starter, try starting it with the kick starter a few times. I'm not sure why Yamaha bothered with a kicker on this bike, it's so poorly designed.

Geezer

[slicky5150]

ok ok you guys have convinced me, i will wire the starter up, lol.

I did some research on regulators. I believe we are getting all worked up over nothing. It does appear there is a circuit with the ignition off. But regulators are designed to cut off the current to prevent battery drain. Im sure whomever designed this regulator thought of this long before we did.

If you look at the schematic this must be the case. If not the accessory terminal would always be hot. The current actually flows from negative to positive. If there was a circuit through the regulator then there would also be a circuit through the accessory.

Once again I could be missing something or just wrong. Hopefully we will hear from rainbowshooter.

Chad

[Geezer]

Originally posted by slicky5150
ok ok you guys have convinced me, i will wire the starter up, lol.

I did some research on regulators. I believe we are getting all worked up over nothing. It does appear there is a circuit with the ignition off. But regulators are designed to cut off the current to prevent battery drain. Im sure whomever designed this regulator thought of this long before we did.

If you look at the schematic this must be the case. If not the accessory terminal would always be hot. The current actually flows from negative to positive. If there was a circuit through the regulator then there would also be a circuit through the accessory.

Once again I could be missing something or just wrong. Hopefully we will hear from rainbowshooter.

Chad

I'm working on replacment regulators for XS11s and they power down when the ignition is off. For more info, eMail me at technojock@yahoo.com.

Geezer

[rainbowshooter]

Sorry TC never got the Emails. I have been working on school and some other stuff. Right now the company I work at went on strike so I am getting back to things that I had left undone. I have the autocad dwg half way at this point but I think I have a couple different schematics in jpeg. I did get some new parts, fuel injection from a 750 GSXR that I need to get installed but while I am waiting on some parts I am gonna redo the harness for the carb version. While I do this I am going to take a crap load of pics and try to get them on imagestation or something like that. To every one waiting on these sorry I had been gone so long.