new guy- old bike

[conquest87tsi]

What kind of combination you thinking? I really do like the alternative color on the tank recess on the standards.

[fredintoon]

yes just weak- wiggles wires around everywhere and nothing - First time I removed the cap from one of the wires and tried to see if it'd spark better it did and the bike stumbled and tried to fire up. Headlight came on and gauge lights. Well, guess I am gonna be an electrician dang

Hi Brian and welcome,
it's supposed to do that, the headlight & gauge lights turn on automatically when the alternator starts charging.
And if you haven't yet noticed (and it took me a month or so) the XS1100 engine turns backwards.

[fredintoon]

It ain't a bike no more, it only looks like one.

First sidecar and I am anxious to get it up and running proper so I can get to the fun part of painting and the even funner part of riding !

Hi Brian,
my one and only sidecar riding lesson from 50+ years ago:-
"watch it kid, these things steer funny."
I got my very first rig almost home before I forgot to watch it.
Only a sturdy steel railing kept me from riding the rig 40 feet down into the mud of Bristol harbour.
You should sign up here:-
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/
to talk to the real sidecar experts.
You could also scroll down this list's forums to modifications, click on wheels & suspension and open my why do I ride a sidecar outfit posts to see how I coped.

[78whiteorbs]

Conquest- was thinking a non stock color as I have two other "red/maroon colored bikes. Prolly brilliant orange metallic or a wizard emerald green with cream. Not sure though I may change my mind 15 times. I like to look at cars for paint codes everywhere I go-

Fred- I am perplexed by your response- You mean that you cannot just turn the ignition on an the headlight will be on without the bike running? The only thing I did when I separated the sidecar from the bike for transport( besides unbolting it) was to severe 3 wires. There were two reds going to the sidecar which I marked so to not get them mixed up and a green one I believe. I thought that they were just blinker and brake lights and I emailed Kevin and asked (he wired the whole thing but it was like 7 years ago and several bikes ago so the memory was foggy) and he said it was just signals.

My confusion is how the bike was charging the battery. There is something missing there I think. On the solenoid there is a positive cable that comes from the battery and on the otherside a starter cable that goes to starter. So I would believe in essence that my altenator is not hooked up. If this were the case could this result in a non start situation ?

I will post a bunch of pix to make things clearer this evening.

The bike wasnt slapped together ,I'll say this ,Kevin really did a thorough job .
Flat tread tires , the camber was corrected, etc he even installed a slightly offset upper triple to change rake for easier steering. This bike is ready to be ridden again!

thanks for the invite I will join that group!

[DGXSER]

I can help claify a couple of your thoughts.

The XS11 has a relay that turns on the headlight. The relay gets powered by the alternator, so until the alternator is putting out juice, engine running, the relay does not pull in and light the headlight. If you got it to kick over and sputter, it may have produced enough to pull the relay in.

As to the wiring at the solenoid, all XS11 bikes have one wire from the battery positive to the terminal mentioned on the solenoid. The only other wire from the battery goes to the auxillory power contact. I do not claim to be enough of an electrical guru to know how the alternator charges the battery back up. But the bike will not run without the battery, it runs off the battery, and charges it while it runs.

[78whiteorbs]

That is very helpful to know. I read that that relay is above the coils and if you jump the pins together it should turn the headlight on . I tried and it didnt.

This bike is a breed apart. First ever bike I have encountered that the headlight cannot be manually turned on when the bike is not running if that indeed is the case.

DGXSER- I did notice that the headlight and gauge lights were on before I tickled the start and she teased me with some sputtering. I was like oh wow look , the headlight and gauges are on ! Then turned it over and it almost started.

[fredintoon]

That is very helpful to know. I read that that relay is above the coils and if you jump the pins together it should turn the headlight on . I tried and it didnt.

This bike is a breed apart. First ever bike I have encountered that the headlight cannot be manually turned on when the bike is not running if that indeed is the case.

Hi Brian,
must be your first XS series Yamaha, they all have the "headlight will only turn on when the alternator starts charging" feature.
At least, that's how they left the factory; yours may have been meddled with.
Bridging the big fat terminals on the starter solenoid will power up the starter motor to turn the engine over even if the starter button circuit has a defect.
If the key and the killswitch are turned on and the ignition is working and the carbs are clean with gas in them, then the engine should start.
If the alternator is working, THEN the headlight and gauge lights will turn on.
Makes us old farts whine about the long lost simple days of magnetos and kickstarts but complicated as it is, this way is better.

[DGXSER]

Sitting in an airport going from memmory here, but I think the component DIRECTLY above the coils is the tip-over switch. It could be detrimental to the bike running to jumper that together.

Just behind the coils, bu just under the tank is the headlight relay. In the same area is the RLU. Both work on the headlight. The RLU has a bunch of wires to it, the headlight relay only four.

another thing that is not necessarily common, is the eletronic system is referred to as a "waisted spark" system. meaning each coil fires two plugs, and it always fires both plugs. One cylinder will be on compression stroke when firing and give the desired bang. The other is on exhaust stroke, so there is no fuel rich air or compression, so no bang, just the "waisted spark".

So if you get a spark in one of the two cylinders, then up to the coil is good on both. The wires, end caps and plugs are still possibly suspect. 1-4 are paired together on one coil, 2-3 on the other. Another thing to consider is the timing. It is actually not all that tough to get the coils crossed up. You could try simply changing which coil is hooked to the grey or orange wires. There is a red/white power wire to each coil. The TCI signals the coil to fire through either the grey wire, or the orange wire. everything will hook up fine and spark the plugs just fine with the grey and orange wires crossed. But the bike will never fire. If that is the problem, simply switch the connectors on the coil wires, and try again.

[78whiteorbs]

"must be your first XS series Yamaha"

I had a 400 and a 650 xs but both early 70's so they where points only and the headlight had an on of switch on the handlebars. Definately drained my battery a time or two by leaving the key switch to run in the middle of the day with the headlight still burning.

Looks like there are two relays above the coils- one further up directly above and, on my bike at least, a vacant post where it appears a relay rubber holder was meant to hang.

Posting video in a second. Thanks for all the input fellas really.

[natemoen]

The one farther forward that is gold in color is the headlight relay. The back one is the tipover switch, it will have an arrow pointing up on it.

[78whiteorbs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBpiA...ature=youtu.be
here is a long winded video

[78whiteorbs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUwtXEXaNtQ

here is the kinda spark I am seeing - thought not on every cylinder- seems like
with some carb cleaner sparyed in the bore I would get some kinda bang .Even if backfiring or something if the plugs or timing was off.....

[78whiteorbs]

Well, have deduced my tip over switch is missing and figured out the gas tank fuel level is what attaches to that one empty connector nearest the front so hat is some progress. I am thinking to pull carbs as I havent looked in there yet. Just assumed it would start on carb cleaner at least even if somehing was totally jacked in there. I have spark , something should be going boom right?
Weird, this girl is really playing hard to get.

There are a coupla cut wires I cannot account for as well as a green wire that is connected to the starter wire coming from the solenoid. What does that go to?

[natemoen]

Fuel gauge sender plug should be way back near the rear of the tank by the bolt attachment for the tank. It Is a 2 wire plug with I believe a black and a dark green wire in it.

[WMarshy]

Here's a stupid question... have you tried starting fluid instead of carb cleaner? I think your not getting the fuel you need where you need it. I wouldnt trust any PO with the carbs, he could have "rebuilt" them after he "cleaned" them and messed them all up. Since you have spark and it has made an attempt to start, I would move on to fuel delivery.

BTW, you want to plug those hoses (the ones that go to the vacuum petcocks) coming from the black carb holders if you dont have them hooked up to the petcocks while trying to start the bike. It will lean out those two cylinders and it will have a hard time starting. Also, did you use the enricher (choke) when you tried to start it? Its got two detents, the more you pull it out the more fuel you give it...