Kick start

[CaptonZap]

Is there clearence to install a bushing in the clutch cover? Now I'll have to look. Does anyone know if anyone has attempted to bore the hole and install a brass bushing?

I use my kicker constantly. My battery can start it, but is on its last legs and I don't want to put a new battery in at the end of the season, so I have been kicking it everytime. I love it. Maybe it's because I'm younger and love the novelty of it, and the looks I get from people that see me do it at the gas station.

Usually she starts on the first kick, but you do feel like a schmuck when you have to kick a couple times.

Something is just bad ass about kicking a liter bike.

Congratulations, you have earned an honorary membership in the AC-AKS MC Club. (Air Cooled and Kick Start)
As part of the benefits, you get the following information.
If you look at the boss inside the cover, you will notice that it has a few webs that reinforce the boss. These webs will provide all the strength you need, so all you have to worry about is the bore wearing oblong.
Aluminum on steel is a very good bearing combination, especially on a low speed bearing. So all we need is a constant film of oil between the shaft and the bore. There is a seal on the outside of the shaft, so oil will not leak out that end of the shaft. So all we need is a way to get oil into the bore.
We know that the clutch pack will sling oil around inside the chamber, so we can take a 1/8 inch drill bit and drill a hole in the top of the boss, clear through to the inner hole. Now take a 1/4 inch drill bit, and counter sink the top of the hole, so that you have formed a little funnel at the top of the 1/8 inch hole. Any oil that gets in the funnel will drain down into the shaft area, and keep it lubricated.
Make sure that the shaft is polished smooth, since any roughness of the surface will not do the aluminum any good. Make sure the seal is good, and that your oil is clean, since any dirt in the bearing will get ground into the aluminum bearing surface, and become a lap, which will grind down the shaft, allowing slop in the shaft, which stresses the seal which degrades it's ability to keep dirt out, which allows more dirt in, which gets imbed---.
I think you can see where this is going.

Now you are good to be a REAL motorcycle rider till your leg gives out.
CZ

p.s. Don't over estimate your bad assedness. You are only kicking a 275cc at any one time. Bad ass is starting a Panther, or a full race Manx. With a busted compression release cable.

[conquest87tsi]

Cpt. Zap,

Let me see if I'm trackin. So you are saying to drill into the boss perpendicular to the kicker shaft correct? Thus allowing some oil to spooge into a make shift funnel onto the shaft. Drilling the hole on the top of the boss would be the only way to ensure oil to flow into it I would assume.

I am at work, but was looking at picture of the clutch covers on ebay and see that there really isn't enough material to machine and press in a bushing.

I do believe that when I replaced my oil pan last week to install the one with the temp sensot installed, that I saw some leakage from the clutch cover as well. Now I have to excuses to do this.

[conquest87tsi]

oh and by the way, I think I'm bad ass enough to kick start TWO XS1100 at one time.

[conquest87tsi]

Kick Start/Clutch question

Not trying to hijack this thread, but this seems like a good question to ask here.

So.. I have discovered that sometimes my kicker will work with the clutch lever depressed, but others times not. At first I thought something had happened to the kicker gear, since I had always pulled the clutch to start it. Then realized it was only "free" with the clutch depressed.

Does anyone with more knowledge of the transmission internals know why this is?

[CaptonZap]

Cpt. Zap,

Let me see if I'm trackin. So you are saying to drill into the boss perpendicular to the kicker shaft correct? Thus allowing some oil to spooge into a make shift funnel onto the shaft. Drilling the hole on the top of the boss would be the only way to ensure oil to flow into it I would assume.

Right. The hole is about 5/8 in in from the mating surface, and a little to the front of the verticle web. The 1/8 hole is as large as you want to go for the through hole, 3/32 or 1/16 will work as well. This puts the location of the hole in the bore about a quarter of an inch in from the seal, insuring that the oil is distributed all along the shaft.

I am at work, but was looking at picture of the clutch covers on ebay and see that there really isn't enough material to machine and press in a bushing.

Yep, that's what prompted me to drill the hole. And when you have the shaft out, take a strip of 400 grit emery paper, and go around the shaft, to take any high spots off. Then hit it with a strip of crocus cloth, and then hit it with the buffing wheel. If it has a mirror finish, you know that it will not chew up the interior of the bore.
Aluminum (cast) is relatively soft, but develops a surface skin of oxide, which is hard. So as long as you do not gouge the surface, either with a rough shaft, or because of grit in the oil, you have hard skin riding on a softer skin, which means that with an oil film present, you have an ideal plain bearing.


2 XS's at a time, huh?
What, you have two right feet? What do you use to shift with?

CZ

[tarzan]

I have to disagree here.Yes , you can run steel in aluminum with a good oil film. A lot of cams run that way. But, in this case, how can you assure you are getting an ample supply of oil to the top of that boss? Also, you won't be keeping an equal load between the bore and shaft.When you kick downward on the kick-start, it creates a heavy load on the bottom of the bore. That will force the oil out at that point.It will also naturally "waller" out the bore after a while since that puts the force at the outside edge of the bottom of the bore. . That may be why they didn't just afix a permanent kick-start on these machines. I'm sure it will work for a while, maybe even quite a while. But eventually, it will cause damage.And a leak at some point too.

[CaptonZap]

I have to disagree here.Yes , you can run steel in aluminum with a good oil film. A lot of cams run that way. But, in this case, how can you assure you are getting an ample supply of oil to the top of that boss? Also, you won't be keeping an equal load between the bore and shaft.When you kick downward on the kick-start, it creates a heavy load on the bottom of the bore. That will force the oil out at that point.It will also naturally "waller" out the bore after a while since that puts the force at the outside edge of the bottom of the bore. . That may be why they didn't just afix a permanent kick-start on these machines. I'm sure it will work for a while, maybe even quite a while. But eventually, it will cause damage.And a leak at some point too.

If you don't think that there is a good deal of oil flying around inside that cover, pull the oil seal at the kick starter hole and drive around a bit. Even easier, leave your oil filler cap off and go ride around. Same chamber.
Yep, there will be a film of oil between the shaft and bore. And a half revolution of the shaft is not going to displace it, even after two or three kicks. And the action of the two gears against each other will tend to push the shaft towards the back of the bearing, which will trap the oil film back there, squeezing some up, where the rotation of the shaft will try to drag it down to where the pressure point is, feeding the bearing area of highest loading. Sort of like the dip oil system of the rods on a 30's era six cylinder Chevy engine.
And the shaft, part #1 at http://http://www.yamaha-motor.com/p...S1100F_-_1979) has a shaft reduction at the inboard end that fits into a socket in the crank case. Meaning it is supported at two places, with the crank being cantilevered out. Therefore, the chances of it wallowing out are small to non existent, since the shaft is rotating around a fixed axis formed by the centers of the two bearings.
If the shaft is smooth, and the oil is clean, your knee is going to wear out before that bearing does. CZ

[clcorbin]

Personally, I don't see the point in there being a kickstart on an XS1100, other than to cover the unlikely event of a starter motor failure. You can't kickstart an XS1100 if it has a flat battery... or even a moderately flat battery. Once the voltage drops below a certain voltage (which eludes me but Steve will come back with....) then the TCI doesn't work and there's no spark. No amount of kicking will get the engine running.

I have to disagree with this statement somewhat. I used the kickstarter on my 79F about three weeks ago due to a failing battery. The battery decided to suddenly die on my at school (started up perfectly fine that morning but was dead 4 hours later) and didn't have enough juice to even turn the engine over. I pulled out the kickstart handle and attached it, and it fired up on the very first (and firm!) kick.

What you need to keep in mind is the starter pulls a LOT of current, which will drop the system voltage below that critical ignition voltage very quickly, so it can't start even if the start can manage to weakly turn it over, as you mentioned. But when you kick it over, all the battery is running is the ignition system, so the voltage is much higher than when the starter is also running. Bingo, it starts and the alternator keeps it running after that.

In the years that I have owned this bike (since 1989), I have had to use the kick starter a total of 3 times. And every time, it started right up when the starter couldn't do the job. And, it was time for a new battery each time as well... Bloody desert heat! Batteries do not last very long here.