no start

[sidecarKev]

Ive finally got back to the point of trying to get the bike to run again. Tonite I spent over 2 hours trying to get the thing to start. When I first bought it it started by just putting a little gas in it and hooking up the battery. Can't believe it started after I found out all the things wrong with it. I have tore the carbs down, removed all jets, cleaned everything, and fixed a couple leaky floats. I have spark at all cyl, but not as strong as I expected. I have tried starting it with and without the airbox. All carb bowls are filling. New plugs. Plugs seem to be wet after a little cranking but not as wet as expected. Coughs out the vacuum hoses for the petcocks once in a while, made a screw fly out that I was using to stop it up with. Enging did pop a couple times. How fast do these engines turn over? I currently have it hooked up to a car battery, and that is what I plan on using in my sidecar. The engine seems to turn over quite slow. Is it a possibility that I am not getting spark in the cylinder because of a low battery? I charged it up last night and today butt never actually checked the voltage. I have it charging again. I dont have another battery to try right now. Even if I switch my charger over to fast start it still doesn't turn the bike over faster like it does with everything else.

Sorry for the drawn out post. Any takers?

Kevin
http://webpages.charter.net/kbhahn/xs11.html

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Kev,

The engine should turn over fairly quickly, especially with a decent battery, and you're running a "Car" battery!! I know you've had some pretty cold weather up there, and your oil may be a bit too thick!! First, check and clean all the wire connections in the starting circuit, unbolt the solenoid and the battery terminals and such and check for corrosion. Check the grounding strap for the engine to frame. Check the ground wire on the battery where it connects to the frame, many points for corrosion and rust to form!!!! Also check all of your fuses!!

The CDI unit will not work properly if undervolted. If your car battery is turning the engine over slowly, then I would suspect it might be faulty as well, a dead cell perhaps?? Car batteries can generate several hundred CCA's, our bike batteries I think are rated at around 50! You say you're planning on using a car battery mounted in your sidecar....I would be concerned that the meager charging system of the XS won't be strong enough to keep that large/type of battery charged, can't generate enough amps?? Good luck, HTH.
T.C.

[sidecarKev]

Well I know I shouldn't have any corrosion problems. I have sandblasted and painted the frame. Maybe I need to check some of the ground connections for paint build up. I plan on updating the fuses but havent got around to it yet, I wanted to hear it run.

I'll have to check out the battery tomorrow.

I'm not to concerned with the charging system not being able to keep up with the battery. I have no problem putting a trickle charger on it once in awhile. Quite a few sidecar rigs are set up this way. I need the extra capacity to run extra lights, sidecar heater, heated vest, tv with satellite dish, mini fridge, all the necessities. The battery also doubles as a useful source of ballast when running the car without passenger.

Kevin

[MartyA]

Two things come to mind - you said you are 'blowing' a vacuum line? Spark plug wires mixed? Or timing?

And the other thing is a weak spark may be nearly no spark under compression.

[sidecarKev]

My spark plug wires all check out. I never switched anything with the timing. TDC of #1 is near the F and/or T mark, kinda hard to tell exactly. Where should it be? Manual says the F mark but with bike running around 1000-1100 rpm.

Kevin

[MartyA]

Yeah, it's "F" at warm idle. I shouldn't ask, but did you check the pickup coil wires with the 'hourglass' test? Did you replace that fuse panel? Might check that.

Weak spark. Wasn't there something about a ballast resistor switching voltage when starting? Sorry, I am electrically challenged...

Might be a connector tucked away somewhere you missed?

[Redbaron]

No Start

Justa thought, try tapping on or wiggling the connector at the CDI Box. Mine would turn over and appeared to have spark, but would not crank, wiggled this connection and it started. JMHO

[sidecarKev]

Checked a few things out this morning. Battery is good. I have over 12 volts at fuse box. I checked voltage at starter and coils, only have about 5 volts when cranking. I have bypassed the ballast resistor for now. Possibly a bad rectifier/regulator?

Kevin

[sidecarKev]

I just looked at a few other posts, probably not a bad regulator. So what could be dropping the voltage from the battery?

Kevin

[John]

Check the voltage at the starter solenoid when it's cranking. Check both sides of it. Battery side and starter side. It may be that the contact ring inside the solenoid is corroded/ burned. A weak battery will cause the contactors to get an arc across them if the solenoid chatters when you try to start it. That will burn the contact points, and severly reduce the voltage coming out of the solenoid. I've seen cars with new batteries not start befroe. The starter/solenoid just goes click click, click... Repair/ replace the solenoid, and it will start.
You said 5 v at the starter? Could be that your starter is drawing too much of a load, when working against the engines' compression. Try checking voltage with the plugs removed, and no strain on the starter.

[ratbyk]

Battery

Suggest that you do or get a load test done on your battery. You say the battery has 12v but if that is with a simple volt meter at rest what you are measuring is the batteries;" surface charge". Put a load on it and then measure it's voltage. Many times on a defective or battery that needs a charge you can watch the volt meter needle simply plummet as a high load is put upon it.
Ken/Sooke
78E Ratbyk
82 FT500 "lilRat"

[sidecarKev]

Okay I have 13 volts on the battery side and 6 volts on the starter side of the solenoid when cranking. If I bypass the solenoid I still have slow cranking. I should have full voltage if I bypass, right? I pulled all the plugs and then I could get almost 9V at the starter.

Kevin

[sidecarKev]

Hi Ken,
I've tried 3 different batteries this morning. The one out of my jeep, one out of my wifes car, and my boat's deep cycle battery. All have the same results. It will be figured out sooner or later.

Kevin

[ratbyk]

Starter?

After ensuring that all of the battery cables/straps etc. are good and well connected/grounded. I would think that the starter must be suspect. How about a draw test on the starter motor it self? Do not know what the starter should draw but I would think in the area of 40 to 50 amps should be all that is required to turn over a cold XS 1100 motor.
Ken/Sooke
78E Ratbyk
82 FT500 "lilRat"

[John]

Kev, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I would say the starter is bad. Maybe disassemble it, and give it a good 'triple' clean. Do you have a Clymer manual for it? It describes what/how to test it and what to look for. It's possible that the bearings on the armature shaft need a good cleaning/lube. That would be the next logical step. Good luk.