bike quit on me

[DGXSER]

I think the 79 is different than the 80-81. On my switch off an 81 there are two wires to the e-stop switch and none are black, both are red white. There should not be any way for them to be grounded to anything.

In the same switch is the starter button/switch. It does have a black wire that goes to ground.

I did find out my spare is kind of toast. The springs under the copper plate broke apart they were so rusted, and I seem to have misplaced the c-clip that holds the switch together.

[ManagerMike]

I think the 79 is different than the 80-81. On my switch off an 81 there are two wires to the e-stop switch and none are black, both are red white. There should not be any way for them to be grounded to anything.

In the same switch is the starter button/switch. It does have a black wire that goes to ground.

I did find out my spare is kind of toast. The springs under the copper plate broke apart they were so rusted, and I seem to have misplaced the c-clip that holds the switch together.

I have the OE manual for the 78 (thanx Cat-Bug) and a Clymer manual. They both agree on the wiring for the 78 and the clymer shows the same for the 78 and 79 for the stop switch, with the black wire sharing the same ground as all the lighting (and just about everthing else) and a bk/wt wire to the ign module. That is what makes me interpret the switch as providing a ground to the tci when closed, and would be the most likely mode of failure (shorted to the handlebar/ground). At least it could be described as a "fail safe" switch in the purest meaning of the term.
I'll look at the clymer tomorrow at work (where I keep it) for the comparison for the later models.

[ManagerMike]

The 80 and up model schematics show both wires at the stop switch red/wt, completing the circuit from the fuse block to the coils, unlike the 78-79 apparently providing a ground signal to the tci. It doesn't look like the later models would interrupt the starter function with the stop switch in stop position as the early ones do.

[DGXSER]

Mike, I think the earlier wiring diagrams make it a little confusing and perhaps your looking at the wrong switch. There is the tipover switch, which the wiring diagrams refer to as the emergency stop switch. It has the black wires your describing.

The earlier wiring diagrams show the "right hand control" which has both the "stop-run-stop" switch along with the starter switch in it, they show it as one switch or control. In the later models, they show the right hand control as two different items, the stop-run-stop switch (I forget what exactly they call it) and the starter switch.

In both diagrams they show two red/white wires for the stop-run-stop switch. I know the starter switch in the earlier models grounded through the handle bars, as some folks have had trouble after painting their bars. On the later models the starter switch has its own ground wire back to the harness.

[ManagerMike]

Mike, I think the earlier wiring diagrams make it a little confusing and perhaps your looking at the wrong switch. There is the tipover switch, which the wiring diagrams refer to as the emergency stop switch. It has the black wires your describing.

The earlier wiring diagrams show the "right hand control" which has both the "stop-run-stop" switch along with the starter switch in it, they show it as one switch or control. In the later models, they show the right hand control as two different items, the stop-run-stop switch (I forget what exactly they call it) and the starter switch.

In both diagrams they show two red/white wires for the stop-run-stop switch. I know the starter switch in the earlier models grounded through the handle bars, as some folks have had trouble after painting their bars. On the later models the starter switch has its own ground wire back to the harness.

Entirely possible, after looking at the OE diagram again with your admonishment in mind, I can see the potential for confusion on my part, more pointed as it seems the emergency stop switch is the term used for two completly different devices in the early vs. later manuals. Go figure...34 year old reference materials translated from Japanese likely to Chinese, then to perhaps German, before passing through innumerable dialects of each, then finally filtered to English, then perhaps even to American English
It begs the question as to how reliable are the wiring diagrams. Exactly why I use reference materials as just that; a reference, I rely on my test light and multimeter to deduce the truth.

However, I do believe that regardless the finer details of what wire has what color, the suspicion of a failed RH switch assembly as the culprit of the shut down/no-start condition that prompted this thread is still pertinent, although not yet verified (with test equipment).

[kevxs]

it was definatly a ground short in the red wire(s) that attach to the stop/run/stop switch. i pulled them out of the assembly, wired them together and it fired up.

i still have to re-solder the starter button back together as i broke it off during this repair.

i'm hoping it will work fine and i'll put a couple layers of heat shrink tubing over the red wires to keep them insulated.

thanks for all the help guys!!!!!

[DGXSER]

Just glad you found the problem. Chasing electrical gremlins is very frustrating at times. You can buy a new starter button pretty cheap if you would prefer that. Look at Mikes XS or Parts-n-more. Somtimes it is listed as a horn button, on these bikes they are the same thing.

[kevxs]

starter button issues

So i wrapped the red/white wires that attach to the off-run-off switch in heat shrink tubing. This seems to have fixed the grounding out issue but my starter button still is not working. Contacts are clean. Can anyone walk me through diagnosing the starter button circut?

[DGXSER]

First thing to know is that the starter button is merely completing the ground side of the circuit. Power starts at the main fuse, then to the key switch, from there to the fuse box by wya of the big Tan wire that splits into three at the fuse box. Then from the ignition circuit fuse it is the red/white wire that goes to the switch you just cleaned and sheathed in shrink wrap. After that switch, the red/white wire goes to the starter solenoid low voltage side. It leaves the low voltage side as a blue wire IIRC, which then goes to the starter button to be grounded when the button is pushed.

To test your circuit, with the key switch on, check to see you have twelve volts or there about at the red/white wire connection to the starter solenoid by checking form the connection to ground. If you have voltage here then go to test two...No voltage? Now take a "jumper wire" (piece of similar gage wire) and connect the positive terminal of your battery to the red/white wire connection at the solenoid. Now push the starter button. No starter then it is most likely the button itself. Test two, take that jumper wire, and connect one end to the blue wire terminal on the starter solenoid and hook the other end to the NEGATIVE terminal of the battery. Starter should turn now. If still no starter then you need to chekc fuse or key switch.

[kevxs]

progress

So there is no power getting to that red wire. If i jump it to the positive battery terminal and hit the starter, it works!
So now i need to trace that wire. Does it go straight to the fuse panel? Where does it lead to?

[DGXSER]

Just to be sure, you jumped battery to the low voltage side or smaller red wire, hit the starter button and the starter worked.

Well, the switch you just worked on, the right hand bar control, is the next stopping off point. So pull that switch off the bars and with the key switch on and it in the RUN position, check if you have power to each side of it.

If only to one side, then the problem is inside that switch. It can be taken apart and cleaned up. If you do not have power to either side of that switch, the next step would be the fuse box. My bet is the switch is still not making a good connection.

[kevxs]

yes its the small red wire on the solonoid that i jumped to the positive battery terminal.

i'm pretty sure my off-run-off switch is good, the voltage was getting to both terminals when in the run position when i checked it the other day and I don't think the bike would be firing up if it wasn't working.

right now its just the starter button circut thats not working. If the next stop in the line is the fuse panel i'm gonna assume I have a bad connection there, would that be safe to say?

[DGXSER]

So, you have checked and get good voltage to both sides of the stop-run-stop switch on the right handle bar...but you do not have voltage at the red wire of at the solenoid?

I have attached a "wiring diagram" of the starter circuit for the bike. You should be able to check for voltage at each point up to the solenoid. If you have voltage at the stop-run-stop switch at both sides, but no voltage at the solenoid, then you have a broken wire in the harness or something. Do you have voltage at the red/white wire going into the TCI?

I had a local XSive that had a similar issue, he had just swapped out his fuse box. After tracing the circuit I found that his conector at the outlet side of the fuse was loose. Got power to the connector so it looked like he had power from the fuse, but nothing got to the wire. I wonder if the terminal end at the solenoid is loose? The wire may look connected, but perhaps it is not.

[kevxs]

your right, the off-run-off button wasn't making the connection, everything is back together and the bike is running great once again.

thanks for all the help DGXSER, MANAGERMIKE and everyone else!!

[DGXSER]

NP, glad you got it running!! BTDT printed the T-shirt myself!