damn hid's

[b.walker5]

IMHO, it really is a blinding level of light to an oncoming vehicle. As I sat in my car, all I could see was the bright blue light.

And that's exactly what an incorrect reflector does. It's simply not designed for the intensity and angle of the beam, so all you get out the front is scattered light with little or no aim or focus. Oh, it's bright alright, theres no disputing that, but there's no chance of killing the glare because it's not focused. Look at vehicles with factory hid's at night and you soon see the difference. A factory hid will pierce the night, and the weather, without blinding others. Retrofit hid's into standard reflectors will flood the night, be useless in the rain and blind everyone. BTDT, wasn't good.

[crazy steve]

...However, in this case, I tried an HID in my SH. I loved the light it put out, was like riding daytime only at midnight.

Then I put the bike at the end of my driveway about 80 feet from my car with them facing each other, and sat in the car. Next day I put the H4 back in. IMHO, it really is a blinding level of light to an oncoming vehicle. As I sat in my car, all I could see was the bright blue light.

Which is why these are illegal in every state....

[WSL91]

Honestly, I do not buy into the hype some folks give about the reflector and all that. Not trying to be rude or anything, but some people spend way to much time analyzing the minute details to find a reason something is bad. I want real life experience, not theoretical concepts. However, in this case, I tried an HID in my SH. I loved the light it put out, was like riding daytime only at midnight.

Then I put the bike at the end of my driveway about 80 feet from my car with them facing each other, and sat in the car. Next day I put the H4 back in. IMHO, it really is a blinding level of light to an oncoming vehicle. As I sat in my car, all I could see was the bright blue light.

Mine is like riding in daylight too. I've never had anyone hi beam me ever and I ride at night. I did spend some time re-adjusting the aim of the HID after install to shine basically like the old. Low beam maybe 25 feet in front, high then is fixed at 50-75 feet out. I will admit the beam is quite wide particularly on the high but I would never go back. I'd have them on the Yamaha's if I had the room.

[WSL91]

so what kit have u guys used?

I bought mine from a guy on a Honda forum. He's importing them himself and has selected ones that work well with the bikes. He does offer several different lights that are based on color. I know of 2 friends locally running them and we all love them.

Here is the link to the guys contact over on VTXOA. He could tell you more of the specifics. I have a relay, small ballast device, and all the wiring. Runs less watts than traditional H4 and well received by the Honda riders. I don't ever remember a post of someone pulling theirs back out and the posts are always "Wow can't believe I haven't done this sooner" posts. Don't ever remember anyone reporting issues with the law either on these but that of course doen't mean they are legal. Like everything else its a personal choice. The guys name is Sam and has sold a boat load of these. Mine has a motor to move the bulb from low to high position. He's also a supporter or going darkside (car tire on the rear) which isn't really an option on the Yamaha's but that's one of the more enthusiastically received threads on the Honda forums

http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/member.php?14896-NDAna

[clcorbin]

I keep hearing "the reflector is not designed for the HID" all the time. A couple of facts:

1) Standard H-4 bulb produces a light from a small filament that is basically shinning outward in a sphere.

2) HID build produces a light from a small plasma ball that is basically shinning outward in a sphere.

3) The reflector couldn't care less about light intensity, only on the orientation of the light ray that is hitting it.

So, if you put that little spherical light source called a HID in the SAME SPOT as the little spherical light source called a H-4, the reflector will do the same job sending the light down the road in basically the correct direction (nothing made by man is perfect). Decent quality HID bulbs put the little spherical ball of light in the same place as decent quality H-4 bulbs, so the reflector does the job it was designed to.

As for legality, of COURSE they are illegal! Every state in the union has laws that basically says every light on a vehicle must be DOT approved. To get DOT approval, you have to spend a lot of money to have them verify the light works. And by light, I mean reflector + bulb + aiming system + what ever else they deem is part of the system. And it costs a crap load of money to get that testing done. And that testing must be done on each and every single application you want to sell it for! Which is simply NOT going to happen, so they won't get DOT approval so they ARE illegal.

But legality doesn't say a single thing about how well the lights work, how well the reflector works with the light or anything else about performance. ONLY legality. As I tend to overlook certain highway rules pretty much every single time I am on the road (speed comes to mind right away!), I'm not too worried about DOT approval.

As for my HID system, I am VERY happy with it. It has the expected brightness, nice white light (not blue), very good focus and very good beam cutoff, especially on low beam. I took the time to properly aim it after installation and I haven't been flashed a single time since it was installed.

[Eveready1100]

First thing I will say is that I'm running a 50w HID @4300k headlight in the standard 8" reflector and it must be a very close match to the original beam spread as it gives off no more scattered light than my wifes' Astra on low beam.

Second thing is, did you guys all miss this bit -

it has a regular style low beam with a hid high beam...

So he's talking about a halogen light ( on low beam). perhaps there may be an issue with trying to fit two separate light sources in one package but by doing that, they would emphasise the biggest problem with any HID light. Startup delay time, which would rear its ugly head everytime you went onto high beam.
If that was a nomal Bixenon HID bulb, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion .

[crazy steve]

HID 'conversion' info......

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html

Those kits are illegal pretty much everywhere....

[Eveready1100]

Those kits are illegal pretty much everywhere

Yes, I'll agree to that, but halogen lights caused an uproar similar to this when they were first released.
Speaking of illegal, fitting your bike with an aftermarket exhaust that is louder than a standard one is illegal, technically speaking, but lots of riders have done it, just to keep their bikes on the road.
The list of things that are regularly fitted to our bikes but are officially illegal is a long one. It's just that some are done through necessity, others through want of change. In my case. It's to help me stay alive on my night runs to and from work on the highway and so far, it's been working fine.

[b.walker5]

I keep hearing "the reflector is not designed for the HID" all the time. A couple of facts:

1) Standard H-4 bulb produces a light from a small filament that is basically shinning outward in a sphere.

2) HID build produces a light from a small plasma ball that is basically shinning outward in a sphere.

3) The reflector couldn't care less about light intensity, only on the orientation of the light ray that is hitting it.

So, if you put that little spherical light source called a HID in the SAME SPOT as the little spherical light source called a H-4, the reflector will do the same job sending the light down the road in basically the correct direction (nothing made by man is perfect). Decent quality HID bulbs put the little spherical ball of light in the same place as decent quality H-4 bulbs, so the reflector does the job it was designed to.

Sorry, dont wish to raise controversary, but the above is completely incorrect. I would urge anyone considering this to do some basic research first. A good place to start is here http://www.my-gti.com/734/retrofitti...ector-housings but pretty much every lamp manufacturer has valid scientific research on the subject, as to most transport regulators in most countries.

It's not just 'old wives tales'. Incorrectly fitted HID lamps to standard Halogen reflectors can cause, and has caused, accidents and death. Do you really want the law suit that would go with that.

[WSL91]

Heres a line from that site "With much of the light being scattered the performance of Xenon’s is generally nowhere as good as that of Halogens"
For my headlight that is absolute BS. While not scientific I'd estimate that the area lit up with my HID is 3x that of Halogen and easily the same distance if not farther WHICH can be affected by aiming.

[WSL91]

Sorry, dont wish to raise controversary, but the above is completely incorrect. I would urge anyone considering this to do some basic research first. A good place to start is here http://www.my-gti.com/734/retrofitti...ector-housings but pretty much every lamp manufacturer has valid scientific research on the subject, as to most transport regulators in most countries.

It's not just 'old wives tales'. Incorrectly fitted HID lamps to standard Halogen reflectors can cause, and has caused, accidents and death. Do you really want the law suit that would go with that.

I didn't see any science quoted there just some one authoring a web page which anyone can do. I think for starters we shouldn't even be talking about automotive as the headlight housings are different anyway for motorcycles which have almost always used a different headlight which produces a different scatter than cars..

[b.walker5]

Dont forget to follow the links to the DOT tests.

'Quantity' of light doesnt always relate to 'Quality' of light. No ones disputing that theyre bright, but theres a raft of evidence pointing to the lack of quality, especially from an on-coming motorists point of view.

Consider this for a moment. You are travelling at night on a poorly lit country road. Your HID light can knock possums out of trees at 200 yards (and cook them before they hit the ground). A car approaches from round the bend ahead and is momentarily blinded by the intensely bright, and poorly focused, beam of light. He losses concentration and crosses the centre line into your path. You can see the whole thing unfolding in front of you 'cause you can see 'half way to hell and back' but you are travelling too fast to take evasive action, and the poor car driver is blinded and has no idea he's about to kill a motorcyclist travelling at 70mph.

Laugh and dismiss it if you like, thats your choice, but it HAS happened, and will happen again. Theres a reason these conversions are illegal for public road use, and it's got nothing to do with taxation.

Like i said, BTDT, wasnt pretty.

[natemoen]

I keep hearing "the reflector is not designed for the HID" all the time. A couple of facts:


1) Standard H-4 bulb produces a light from a small filament that is basically shinning outward in a sphere.


2) HID build produces a light from a small plasma ball that is basically shinning outward in a sphere.


3) The reflector couldn't care less about light intensity, only on the orientation of the light ray that is hitting it.


So, if you put that little spherical light source called a HID in the SAME SPOT as the little spherical light source called a H-4, the reflector will do the same job sending the light down the road in basically the correct direction (nothing made by man is perfect). Decent quality HID bulbs put the little spherical ball of light in the same place as decent quality H-4 bulbs, so the reflector does the job it was designed to.

Wrong! The reflector is only part of it. The h4 bulb has internal reflectors the direct the little ball of light to a SPECIFIC area of the main reflector so that you get a SPECIFIC beam of light. The bulb and reflector are designed to work together, different bulb...different result.

[crazy steve]

I didn't see any science quoted there just some one authoring a web page which anyone can do. I think for starters we shouldn't even be talking about automotive as the headlight housings are different anyway for motorcycles which have almost always used a different headlight which produces a different scatter than cars..

There's plenty of science, follow the links... The Stern site has more active links.

And while all this is pointed at automotive, there's only one real difference for a motorcycle application. All halogen lamp/reflector assemblies have a low-beam cut-off line, plainly visible as a very shallow 'V'. This 'V' is biased in automotive applications, rotated either right or left (depending on which side of the road you drive on) to reduce glare for oncoming drivers, with the 'high' side being 'away' from oncoming traffic. Motorcycle applications generally don't have this bias, the cut-off is 'level'. This is done by rotating the lamp mount slightly in the lens assembly, easily seen if you compare similar motorcycle vs car units. This is a allowable compromise due to the fact that bikes lean, but does increase glare to oncoming drivers unless you adjust them lower than an automotive unit, which is how they're supposed to be set.

And all that 'extra' light close to the vehicle while on high beam isn't a good thing; that causes your pupils to close up and actually reduces your ability to see distance. Your brain sees 'more light = good' when in reality if you're going more than 30 mph you have less sight distance.

The reason the 'real' HID lights are so expensive isn't the electronics so much as it's the optics; you need a better focusing system to get the light where it's needed and keep it out of the places it's not. Installing a HID 'coversion' into a halogen reflector doesn't do that, and the OEM Yamaha optics aren't that good to start with. Want a real improvement? Get a premium aftermarket halogen lens assembly with better glass and reflector. You won't find any motorcyle-specific units, but the automotive units work just fine...

[airborneXS]

screw it...ill just figure it out...thanks for all the info everybody...i love this site...