Why the Devotion to XJ's?

[James England]

Very well said James.Not to change the subject,but,what do you think of the Triump T-100? I won't part with my SG,but was thinking of getting one.

The Triumphs (old ones, not the modern ones made now) are unreliable, oil leaks all the time, vibration, bits falling off, poor design and completely, utterly unsuited to touring or indeed any journey above 50 miles! I had three 650 Bonnevilles in the 1970's and they were all the same. Petrol leaks (including a tank that cracked due to vibration), oil leaks, especially from the pushrod tube, silencers vibrating off, tiny tyres, horribly uncomfortable seat, pathetic lights, even more pathetic, weedy swingarm, useless suspension, blown bulbs all the time due to vibration (no counter-rotating shaft on these things). I wouldn't have one as a gift if the condition was that I had to ride it three times a week.

I wouldn't waste your money

[tv5150]

Like An Old Friend

As far as devotion goes toward the XS11, I had already owned 7 bikes earlier including a KO 750 Honda and the "New" GL1000 Wing when the XS 1100 came out in 78. At 1st, I didn't care a whole lot for the boxey styling of the78 and when they came out with the "Special" in 79 I had been up on all the accolades and magazine articles of the 78 and decided the 79 Special "looked right" to me so I bought one of the 1st available locally. From the 1st time I swung a leg over the bike at the dealer to ride home after buying it, I knew the bike was indeed rather "Special". It just felt right and natural to me and even fit me nicely being 6'2"...And so the journey and bonding with that 79 began and lasted until 85 when I traded it in on the just released V-Max...Even though the Max was a "Holy Terror" on 2 wheels, I always missed my 79 XS11, especially when comparing the ride and seating on the Max. Well, since 85 I've owned several XS11s and a couple of XJ11s also. And everytime I get on one, it's like being re-united with a long lost friend and that feeling you get when everything is right with the world and all is good.
Don't get me wrong, I also own a GL1800 Wing which in my opinion has to be one of the next all time greatest bikes in my book. I would be hard-pressed to give-up my GL18 over the XS11s I now own, and the only factor that would necessitate that choice would have to be a financial one. BUT I would be happy with just the XS11 IF that was the ONLY bike I could afford

[crazy steve]

I'll throw this out there.... just my opinion mind you...

One reason for the XS11's enduring 'cult status' is it's one of the last (and the last from Yamaha) sold-in-the-US examples of the liter-class UJM (universal Jap motorcycle) and arguably the best of the breed. While it wasn't really outstanding in any one category, it was very good in all of them, something it's competition couldn't match.

Unfortunately, Yamaha was also responsible for the death of the UJM in North America. The introduction of the 'Specials', starting with the 650 versions, killed the market for the UJM as most buyers stampeded after the Harley/chopper-styled 'Specials' (what does that say about American tastes? ). And every model after the '78 was living off the '78's reputation, as they lost power every year and got increasingly gadget-laden, depending on 'gimmicks' (Midnight Special! Air-assist suspension! LCD readouts!) to spur sales. The UJM was dead after 1980 when Yamaha discontinued the 'naked' standard.

Ok, I sound like a ranting purist, and I'm not; I own multiple Harleys also so you can't accuse me of being a 'brand snob'. But Yamaha discovered that most US buyers really wanted a Harley, but for whatever reasons (cost, disdain/fear of the 'lifestyle', their then-current reliability issues, etc) weren't buying them. The Specials were a huge sales hit, which is why the later standards are somewhat rare. But the legacy of the '78E was still attached so all the models enjoy that to a degree.

The European riders never had the 'Harley envy', so these models weren't sold there (well, you had the somewhat-similar RH and Sport models but they didn't sell well). They demanded an 'all-around' bike, that's why they got beauties like the XJR..... Too few US riders wanted that type of bike, so here we are...

I'll add that I'm definitely a 'all-around' fan; I think the '78E is one of the best vintage examples out there, and while the styling is 'different', nobody will mistake it for anything else. I also very much like my Sportsters as all-around bikes. These are a bit more nimble (reminds me more of my XS2 650) and with warmed-over 1200 power it's like a 650 twin on steroids.

Remember, this is just my opinion...

[motoman]

I'll throw this out there.... just my opinion mind you...

One reason for the XS11's enduring 'cult status' is it's one of the last (and the last from Yamaha) sold-in-the-US examples of the liter-class UJM (universal Jap motorcycle) and arguably the best of the breed. While it wasn't really outstanding in any one category, it was very good in all of them, something it's competition couldn't match.

Unfortunately, Yamaha was also responsible for the death of the UJM in North America. The introduction of the 'Specials', starting with the 650 versions, killed the market for the UJM as most buyers stampeded after the Harley/chopper-styled 'Specials' (what does that say about American tastes? ). And every model after the '78 was living off the '78's reputation, as they lost power every year and got increasingly gadget-laden, depending on 'gimmicks' (Midnight Special! Air-assist suspension! LCD readouts!) to spur sales. The UJM was dead after 1980 when Yamaha discontinued the 'naked' standard.

Ok, I sound like a ranting purist, and I'm not; I own multiple Harleys also so you can't accuse me of being a 'brand snob'. But Yamaha discovered that most US buyers really wanted a Harley, but for whatever reasons (cost, disdain/fear of the 'lifestyle', their then-current reliability issues, etc) weren't buying them. The Specials were a huge sales hit, which is why the later standards are somewhat rare. But the legacy of the '78E was still attached so all the models enjoy that to a degree.

The European riders never had the 'Harley envy', so these models weren't sold there (well, you had the somewhat-similar RH and Sport models but they didn't sell well). They demanded an 'all-around' bike, that's why they got beauties like the XJR..... Too few US riders wanted that type of bike, so here we are...

I'll add that I'm definitely a 'all-around' fan; I think the '78E is one of the best vintage examples out there, and while the styling is 'different', nobody will mistake it for anything else. I also very much like my Sportsters as all-around bikes. These are a bit more nimble (reminds me more of my XS2 650) and with warmed-over 1200 power it's like a 650 twin on steroids.

Remember, this is just my opinion...

.......and alot of truth to that since the VentureRoyal didn't become too popular and Yammy finially did it as a Venture harley style............

[crazy steve]

It always amuses me when I see on general forums like these when some lament that the UJM-type bike isn't available any more. Guess what, somebody did try sell this type of bike here.... several times. Harley tried selling a high performance 'conventional' bike (the Sportster Sport) and they never sold well. They're trying again (with the XR1200), we'll see if this one does any better. It seems to be popular enough in Europe that HD may keep building it, but you don't see many here. You don't see all that many of the 'modern' Triumphs either...

[jetmechmarty]

I like these too.

[James England]

it's one of the last (and the last from Yamaha) sold-in-the-US examples of the liter-class UJM (universal Jap motorcycle) and arguably the best of the breed. While it wasn't really outstanding in any one category, it was very good in all of them, something it's competition couldn't match.

Unfortunately, Yamaha was also responsible for the death of the UJM in North America.

Can you clarify this please, Steve? I've not heard the acronym UJM before...what exactly is 'universal' motorcycle? And how were Yamaha responsible for the death of them in the USA?

[madmax-im]

Can you clarify this please, Steve? I've not heard the acronym UJM before...what exactly is 'universal' motorcycle? And how were Yamaha responsible for the death of them in the USA?

Universal japanese Motorcycle or the Standard style were terms used to describe bikes like ours...inline engines...universal in that they didnt specialize in one area but generally did everything well. These terms have been used here in this country at any rate....As to Yamaha being responsible for the death of the UJM...that statement needs clarification as it is hardly a valid one IMO. Only as it relates to yamaha perhaps...

[crazy steve]

I don't know who coined the term, but it refers to a 'general purpose' bike, not one that has been designed for a specific riding type. In those days, you bought a 'UJM' then you equipped it for your use. All that the manufacturers sold was a 'naked' bike. The '78E was a UJM; one model only from the factory with a 'conventional' layout.

As to my laying the blame on Yamaha for the death of the UJM here, before they introduced the 'Specials' (in the various lines) all the Japanese bike makers pretty much only sold one model in a given size, maybe a number of cylinders choice. But the bike layout was 'conventional' and suspension/handling decisions were based on performance, not styling.

All that changed with the Specials. The introduction of the Yamaha 650 Specials changed everything; mimicking the customs that were being built by owners, a buyer could now buy a bike that looked similar to the customs seen in magazines, without needing the skills or money investment. How many remember all the semi-chopped 650 British twins from those days? Sportster tanks and 16" rear wheels laced on, pull-back bars, modified exhausts, Yamaha basically built and marketed 'that' bike. Sales took off... anybody could own a 'custom'. And if you couldn't see the resemblence to Harleys, well, you weren't looking very hard. It didn't take long for the manufacturers to catch on; while Yamaha beat most of them to market, by the early 80's all were introducing 'cruiser' type bikes, sales of the 'standard' models fell off until they quit even offering them here except in the smaller models.

The blame should properly go to a guy who worked for Yamaha; Ed Burke was a North American Yamaha honcho who came up with the idea. It was a hard-sell at corporate headquarters but once the bikes went into production, sales figures blew away any remaining resistance. The concept was applied to the bigger bikes and the rest is history.

While the 'Specials' by themselves may not have eliminated the UJM, the idea behind them did. The Japanese manufacturers were shown that tailoring the product for a specific market paid. Rather than just selling a UJM and letting the owner equip it to his use, there was money in selling a bike already done. Touring models appeared, etc, and the US market fragmented into 'specialty' bikes. The UJM sold poorly and was discontinued.

The funny part is that Harley knew this all along; while they were struggling at the time, it wasn't because they offered too many models. The Japanese didn't get that, they were forcing the market to accept what they sold and their sales successes told them they were right but it was about cost and reliabilty, not choices. Walk into any US import dealer today and what will you see? Crotch rockets, big touring bikes, Harley clone v-twins, maybe a few 'sport touring' models, with each catagory having a 'flagship' model. If a UJM is there, it will be a 'retro' model and generally lacking the tech offerings
on the the other models.

If anybody can come up with a better/different explanation for why the UJM disappeared from the US market, I'd like to hear it...

[jimbyjimb]

Here's a great example of why I love my XS and this community:

TC just sent me one of his SOFA's. I will install tomorrow, but for now I'm just admiring what a gorgeous bit of aluminium it is!

The instructions he sent with the SOFA are clear and easy to read and printed on thick, super high-quality ancient-Egyptian standard papyrus. TC's hieroglyphs surpass the clarity and creativity of the ancients while still conveying the point as clearly as could be demanded.

Thanks a lot TC, I really appreciate it. 45 dollars for one of these is a real deal IMO, I'm sure a store-bought made by a small Chinese slave-child would have cost considerably more. It would certainly been of considerably less quality as well. I'm excited to install it!

[sparks]

Boy, am I stupid.. I havent the foggiest idea what a SOFA is and want one based on that post..

Lee
(Sparks)

[BA80]

Spin on Oil Filter Adapter

[jetmechmarty]

Boy, am I stupid.. I haven't the foggiest idea what a SOFA is and want one based on that post..

Lee
(Sparks)

Lee,

That does not make you stupid.....just ignorant.

[crazy steve]

Lee,

That does not make you stupid.....just ignorant.

'Uninformed' would be a gentler term....

[jetmechmarty]

'Uninformed' would be a gentler term....

Yes, but where's the fun in that?