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  • 4500 RPM Backfire and Shutter

    Team, I need some help. I have a 1980 XS1100 Midnight Special. The engine backfires and stutters at 4500 RPM’s. I’m 99.9% sure it’s NOT the fuel or timing system and I believe it’s mechanical. (Is valve timing an option?)

    History: This bike has 18,600 miles on her. I've swapped out the carbs and the Yamaha ignition system in 2009 and installed an Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) system; that was 4000 miles ago (14,320 on the Odometer when I got her). In 2011, I rode the bike 2,644 miles. It’s been running good. But last October 25, 2011, I when for a ride and after a short stop, the bike would not run past 4500 RPM’s. It started fine, but would NOT run good enough to get home. Two weeks later, I rode her again and got 5 miles down the road before the backfire condition returned. It has NOT run good again.

    Things I’ve tried: I’ve replaced the spark slugs and spark plug wires, swapped out the coils and ignition system. I’ve checked the timing advance system with a timing light; it advances with increasing RPM’s as expected. The cylinder compression readings are 160, 160, 150, 160 psig. The intake manifold vacuum is the same on all four cylinders at idle and tracks steady as you increase the engine speed, so it’s not a sync problem. The backfire and stutter condition is the same whether you’re riding on the road or sitting still in neutral on the center stand. The stock exhaust has good outlet flow. I’ve flushed the crank case with Sea foam and I’ve changed the oil and filter. I totally drained the gas tank and added 93 octane Chevron gas. No change. The fuel pressure is 38#’s and the flow is not obstructed. The screens in the gas tank are clean. No rust in the gas tank. I bypassed the ignition switch and kill switch and measure the battery voltage at the GM ignition system; it’s a solid 13.3 volts. I’ve used a lap top computer to enrich and lean the fuel settings at 4500 RPM’s, nothing seems to correct the condition. I’ve replaced the throttle body and fuel injectors, and checked the throttle position sensor. No joy.

    Team, I’m stumped; any ideas? I love challenges but this needs the resources of XS11 experts.
    '80 XS1100LG Midnight Special
    Looks like an '82 Maxim, Fuel Injected
    '82 XJ1100J, Fuel Injected
    Stan Hutchison

  • #2
    You're not in XS land anymore!

    Hey Stan,

    Because of your EFI mod, you've gone way beyond what most of us are familiar with on these machines!

    You also say GM ignition....did you make your own system using the tech tips, or are you using some GM system for a 4 banger that you can use the EFI with??

    Your compression readings are good, so I doubt it's the valve clearances, and these engines don't tolerate the cams being off even just 1 tooth. Okay, I guess you're asking about slotting the cams to tweek the timing a little, but the stock setup works fairly well with the OEM ig/carbs.

    Sounds to me like there's something wrong with the GM ig. system not providing enough timing advance to allow the engine to get past the 4500 rpm range. You stated you can use a computer to adjust the F/A ratios, is there any kind of diagnostics for the GM ign unit?? Also, you didn't mention an oxygen sensor...not sure if it's required for your particular EFI system, but I thought they were needed for it to adjust the F/A on the fly!?

    T.C.
    T. C. Gresham
    81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
    79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
    History shows again and again,
    How nature points out the folly of men!

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow, sounds like you have been battling this for a while. As TC stated, most of us (including myself) are not quite "qualified" or knowledgeable enough to help but, sometimes one 'dumb' question from the janitor is all it takes to get you thinkin... so, here's my dumb question... is there a way to verify the FI is injecting at the correct time? Maybe it gets out of phase once RPM increases... maybe verify your pickup sensors for proper clearances..
      '79 XS11 F
      Stock except K&N

      '79 XS11 SF
      Stock, no title.

      '84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
      GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

      "What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~

      Comment


      • #4
        Good comments. Thanks team. Yes, There is an O2 sensor, but I disabled the input, which is called open loop, to troubleshoot the backfire condition. No joy. It is possible that electrical noise is causing injection problems, but it's interesting how it showed up during a ride. I'm going to remove the valve cover and checked the cam timing marks. I can also use an oscilloscope to look for abnormal fuel injection spikes. That's possible.
        '80 XS1100LG Midnight Special
        Looks like an '82 Maxim, Fuel Injected
        '82 XJ1100J, Fuel Injected
        Stan Hutchison

        Comment


        • #5
          Sorry Stan, your on your own since almost everything has been changed. Best advice I can give is put it back like it's supposed to be and start again.
          Greg

          Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

          ― Albert Einstein

          80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

          The list changes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Stan if we need another timing disk let me know. Check the hall effect sensor mounting. Sometimes things become resonant at certain frequencies and that makes some noise in the system. Check output of O2 sensor with scope for erratic behavior. Last, - - - ride the other bike
            Dell82
            Dell82
            Houston, TX
            82' XJ1100J Maxim "LASERMAX"
            SOLD 86' Kawasaki Voyager XII, 1200cc SOLD
            SOLD 82' CB450SC Nighthawk, FOR SALE SOLD
            SOLD 82' CB450SC Nighthawk, parts bike SOLD

            Comment


            • #7
              It's running!!!!

              It's always something. After many hours of consulting, with men of sound mind and knowledge, the team decided the XS11 had an ignition problem. I checked the wiring and grounding system; all was okay. Then I checked the timing sensor...are you ready, wait for it, yes, the sensor was a little bit loose. I tightened the screw and the backfire at 4500 RPMs disappeared.

              I feel stupid. How could something so simple give me so much trouble. I've put several hundred miles on her and it's runing great. I went back and put locktight on the screw just to make sure this doesn't happen again. I feel great. After several weeks, I'm still a happy fellow. Stan H.
              '80 XS1100LG Midnight Special
              Looks like an '82 Maxim, Fuel Injected
              '82 XJ1100J, Fuel Injected
              Stan Hutchison

              Comment

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