Brake Master Parts missing

[JeffH]

In the process of rebuilding the front brake Master Cylinder. No surprise that the PO had been 'in there' and the outer flat washer retainer was missing. Likely one of the reasons the piston would not spring back into position since the piston was not staying properly aligned. (Oh joy, another safety issue) I see from the manual (copy enclosed) there is what looks like nine (9) parts listed. (which I labeled a-b-c-d-e-f-g-h-i) If in my diagram 'C' is the C-Clip then 'D' would be the flat washer that was missing. However a new 'D' was provided in the P/N: 1J3-W0041-20 Front Master Kit.

But, there is no 'G' in the Kit or that came out when I removed the Piston. It appears from the diagram that 'G' is some kind of washer that would rest on the end of the piston port hole stars and would be a buffer between the Piston 'E' and Seal 'H'.

I need some help determining what 'G' is supposed to be. Also I was not sure about what 'A' was supposed to represent. The rubber dust boot attaches to the outboard end of the piston but it doesn't look like there is any need for a retainer clip. The diagram should help explain what I'm looking at.



Jeff

[jjz28]

I am pretty sure that A is a plastic washer that holds the dust cover on. I could be wrong but that is the way mine was.

[crazy steve]

A lot of people have been misled by that drawing....

First, A and B don't come in most rebuild kits (none that I've seen anyway; maybe in the 'factory' kits for $76, but not aftermarket) so if those are missing, you're SOL. The upside is they're not really needed, but should be there to help keep 'stuff' out of the master. Part A can be either a wire clip (which will usually be rusted beyond hope) or sometimes a nylon ring; it may not be there at all. Some seals (part B) have part A molded into the flange; if the flange is 'hard', part A is 'built in' and you simply push the seal in (carefully, as it tears easily).

The G is the check valve, and why they insist on showing that as a separate part I can't say. Every one I've ever pulled apart has had that fastened to the end of the piston with a rivet. There should be a thin spring steel 'star' on the end of the piston (with six fingers) covering six holes; I've also seen a few with four fingers/holes. That is the 'G'.

The rest is as you describe it...

[JeffH]

A lot of people have been misled by that drawing....

Some seals (part B) have part A molded into the flange; if the flange is 'hard', part A is 'built in' and you simply push the seal in (carefully, as it tears easily).

The G is the check valve, and why they insist on showing that as a separate part I can't say. Every one I've ever pulled apart has had that fastened to the end of the piston with a rivet. There should be a thin spring steel 'star' on the end of the piston (with six fingers) covering six holes; I've also seen a few with four fingers/holes. That is the 'G'.

The rest is as you describe it...

AOK - Thanks
Now I can "assemble with confidence" knowing a part isn't missing. When I'm in the twisty's and 'need brake' I want to be pretty sure the brakes are going to work properly + more critically, when that car that wasn't looking pulls out in front of me! BTW, from your previous informational postings I did order and received today the Goodridge Stainless Steel brake lines + banjos etc. Went with Z1 that jetmech had also used and the Z1 service & info was excellent. The old rubber lines were so hard you could go golfing with them. (Well, if you were really short). Traxxion Dynamics should have the emulators and fork rebuild ready to go pickup by Friday so I hope to re-assemble forks, rebuilt calipers with new pistons, new SBS brakes and rebuilt masters this weekend. Then comes the T.C. fuse box after I sort out what's what electrically since I got the bike with the fairing and luggage racks removed for sanding. (weird thing to do when bike didn't run or have any brakes)

I splurged and got the OEM Front Brake Master Rebuild kit for $50 which included rubber boot 'B'. The OEM kit includes a new 'B' and the outward end is pliable with inner very stiff (like the molded flange you described) and is the same diameter as the C-Clip that it rests against. It should stay in place just fine as the end of the boot slides over the outer end of the piston . Thanks for resolving the 'star' question and that 'G' is really the check valve star already affixed to the end of 'E'. In the OEM 1J3-W0041-20 Kit the Piston is drilled with 4 holes at the check valve star end.

Jeff

[zookey]

On our 79 XS11 Special and our 77 XS750 the master cylinders were exactly the same. All listed parts are available from Parts N More part number #08-0204 http://www.partsnmore.com/parts/yamaha/xs750/?filters[fitting]=custom.

Not sure if those are the same for the bike you are working on though.

[WMarshy]

AOK - Thanks
...When I'm in the twisty's and 'need brake' I want to be pretty sure the brakes are going to work properly...

LOL I usually like to know for certain they wotk but, hey if pretty sure is good enough for you then that cool.

...BTW, from your previous informational postings I did order and received today the Goodridge Stainless Steel brake lines + banjos etc. Went with Z1 that jetmech had also used and the Z1 service & info was excellent...

Jeff,

Do you have a part number (maybe a link) to the lines you purchased from Z1? I would like to get a set. Did you keep the factory splitter and the 1 to 2 setup from factory or run 2 separate lines from the front MC? Thanks!

[JeffH]

X1 Enterprises Stainless Steel Brake Lines

Do you have a part number (maybe a link) to the lines you purchased from Z1? I would like to get a set. Did you keep the factory splitter and the 1 to 2 setup from factory or run 2 separate lines from the front MC? Thanks!

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so lets try the pic and see if it helps show what I did for the 1978 11E:



The Old Line from the Master to the Junction was 16 1/4" The Old Lines from the Junction to the Calipers were 22" each.

In talking with Z1, they said to allow 1 1/2" for their Banjo fittings. Because the new Stainless Steel lines are fairly stiff I want to make sure I wasn't going to end up with lines too short. I ordered a 14" Line + Banjo fittings for the Brake Master to the Junction. I ordered two 20" Lines to get me from the Junction to the Calipers.

Here is a link to area that lists the Z1 Enterprises parts list:
http://www.z1enterprises.com/catalog.aspx?pid=YPWB1


a

a

[WMarshy]

...I ordered a 14" Line + Banjo fittings for the Brake Master to the Junction. I ordered two 20" Lines to get me from the Junction to the Calipers...

Jeff, how do you like them? Are you happy with the lengths after assembly? It looks like the Goodridge lines are the 803 series... any idea what the difference is on the 833 series Colorflex lines? Looks like just the connector is more aesthetically pleasing...I'm not quite convinced its worth another $3 per line... Thanks!

Oh, what banjos (angle) did you get?

[JeffH]

Jeff, how do you like them? Are you happy with the lengths after assembly? It looks like the Goodridge lines are the 803 series... any idea what the difference is on the 833 series Colorflex lines? Looks like just the connector is more aesthetically pleasing...I'm not quite convinced its worth another $3 per line... Thanks!

Oh, what banjos (angle) did you get?

I'm back! Internet connection went wacko and last part of my reply was lost.

Both jetmechmarty and I used the 35 degree banjo. He used the Stainless Steel Series Black line while I got the 803 Series Stainless Steel Clearcoat line. (what you see in the picture) The 883 Series is a few bucks more $$ but I don't think it is stainless steel. Line is some high-tech material I think which is why I went with the SS 803 Series.

Z1 is over in Marion NY so you could just take a ride and see what they got. My order as shown on the list including shipping was $150. Traxxion Dynamics will have my forks ready to go pickup on Friday. With No Forks I have yet to assemble the lines. I rebuilt the front Master Cylinder today and that is back on the bike. If I have time tomorrow I will install the banjo fittings and attach the single line from the Master to the Junction. Hopefully Saturday I'll be able to finish the forks-brakes assembly and test ride.

If you saw the pic of my calipers and pistons in the 11E Rescue thread you can see why I couldn't get the brakes serviceable. After rust removal and heavy cleaning the front brakes would work but barely. Full front brake was about as effective as hitting the kill switch. Plus the PO had some parts missing in the Master. That's when I started ordering new parts for the whole front brake system. This rescued bike is still a work in progress.

Jeff

[JeffH]

Order 13" Line not 14"

Are you happy with the lengths after assembly? Thanks!

Oh, what banjos (angle) did you get?

Tested the 'fit' between the Brake Master Cylinder and the Junction split. fyi, Bike is 78' 11E. The 14" works ok with a nice arc, -BUT- it will hit the tank when the handlebars go full right. For a test: I took the new 803 line off, measured up +1" and tested what a 13" line would do. Result: I am going to swap the 14" 803 Stainless Series for the 13" Stainless 803 Series. Using 13" will be a better fit as there is still plenty of line to clear the right fork and still provide a nice arc up to the master + with a 13" line it will not hit the tank with bars full right.

Just wanted to clarify that I am going to be using 13" in case you were planning to order the 14" version. The original banjo had about a 1/4" neck while the new banjo (see picture) has a 3/4" neck so the arc between the banjo bolt and the actual start of the line is a bit different from the original. I'd recommend 13" with these 35 degree GR593-03CH banjos shown in pic.



Jeff

[bikerphil]

Jeff, you'll find out that that line will be fine once you put the forks in the triple trees. The line should be routed between the tach and inside of the fork/headlight ears then down to the junction.