Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

11E Rescue Bike - Project Update

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 11E Rescue Bike - Project Update

    Channel 11 is kind of quiet today so I thought I'd post an update on the $450 78' 11E Rescued out of Louisville on February 11th. Found nothing really unusual along the way, in fact most on the site would say BTDT.

    It is interesting to see how people (PO's) diagnose problems and determine their course of corrective action. Like: bike will not start so let's put on a new rear tire. Or, front brakes will not work so let's remove the fairing and luggage to start sanding on-the-bags.

    Actually the bike was not in bad shape. It just needed some $$$$ and some TLC. Luckily for me when all was done I found the motor to be good, it burns no oil, tranny is fine and it starts and runs fantastic. The bike likely had been sitting for a while although PO said he had ridden it after he got it in a trade. However, front tire from 2003 still had the chicken strips and maybe no more than 300-400 miles on it. By appearances, 2010 rear tire had no more than 100 miles.

    I added up the $$$ last night and have spent $1,200 so far on 'stuff'. That covers everything except the bill at Traxxion Dynamics who are building the forks.

    If interested, here are a few pics taken during the re-do. Just the normal neglected stuff as items were not being properly maintained along the way.

    #1 had bad needle spring and subsequent 'flash' fire in the airbox. Likely how the 3 quarts of petrol got into the oil:


    Bit of scuff on E#4 cam lobe both others aok. Intake cam journal on I4 end likely a bit worn as I4 adjustment from .011 to .008 made I1 tighten up by .0015


    No wonder the Front Brakes didn't work! -and- yeah, that was fun getting those unstuck! Pistons were really pitted so order new ones from HVC Cycle (thanks bikerphil)


    Found the rattle in the fuel tank was the filter (jetmech was right)
    Petcock rebuild did the trick, no fuel leaking past. Bottom of air filter was completely rusted away


    Nate was 100% right, somebody put front axle and retainer together wrong which was causing the rub. I'm not sure how I got so lucky, but this bike really runs fantastic. Roll-On is awesome and after it warms up no issues or nothing I'd change with the carbs. Runs the twistys just as I hoped. Will be even better after Master Cylinder & Caliper rebuilds + new skins.


    Next Steps to be completed: Mount Tires & Tubes, Install the TC Fuse Box, wait till next week to go pickup the front forks, then try and wrestle with the Fairing and see if I actually got all the Fairing / Luggage parts n' pieces n' hardware.


    All-in-All it has been a fun project. Kind of a crap shoot picking up a no title beater with tires frozen into the dirt. I got real lucky that the bike was mechanically sound and appears to be headed toward giving me many fun miles of XS11 riding Just don't tell the wife I spent $1,200 bucks in parts .......... She saw the parts arrive but never asked how much!

    Jeff
    78' XS1100 E
    78' XS1100 E
    78' XS1100 E

    '73 Norton 850 Commando
    '99 Triumph Sprint ST
    '02 G-Wing GL1800

  • #2
    Those emulsion tubes should be the poster child for why they should be removed and cleaned...

    Those are the nastiest brake pistons I've ever seen...

    I will note that the 120/90-17 rear tire is too small; yes, I know if you use one of those 'conversion' charts from the OEM 4.50H-17 that's what comes out, but that size is waaay small for the bike. Look here for a size comparison....
    http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...highlight=tale

    Compared to a 130/90-17 (already small compared to the OEM 4.50H), you'll lose almost an inch of diameter with the 120, plus you'll lose about 80 lbs of load capability.
    Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

    '78E original owner - resto project
    '78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
    '82 XJ rebuild project
    '80SG restified, red SOLD
    '79F parts...
    '81H more parts...

    Other current bikes:
    '93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
    '86 XL883/1200 Chopper
    '82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
    Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
    Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...

    Comment


    • #3
      Awesome Jeff, your bike is gonna be sweeet, you sure don't fool around, looks like proper reconditioning to me. Can't wait to see it up close at the next rally.
      2H7 (79)
      3H3

      "If it ain't broke, modify it"

      ☮

      Comment


      • #4
        Tires

        Originally posted by crazy steve View Post
        I will note that the 120/90-17 rear tire is too small; yes, I know if you use one of those 'conversion' charts from the OEM 4.50H-17 that's what comes out, but that size is waaay small for the bike. Look here for a size comparison....
        http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...highlight=tale

        Compared to a 130/90-17 (already small compared to the OEM 4.50H), you'll lose almost an inch of diameter with the 120, plus you'll lose about 80 lbs of load capability.
        Thanks for the info. I was maybe chasing the wrong thing - WIDTH vs HEIGHT. I just pulled out the verniers to do some measuring. The existing 2010 rear (Kenda) 130/90-17 has not even 1/4" clearance with the drive shaft side swing arm. I was trying to fix that, to improve the clearance and get a tire not as fat (wide) that protrudes way out beyond the rim seat.

        The Kenda (with air) measures a bit over 5 1/4" wide while the new Bridgestone measures slightly less that 5" wide. With the verniers the rear rim measures 3 1/2" wide. (btw the front measures 3" wide).

        Just measure HEIGHT and I see what you are saying. The Kenda Challenger on the bike is 26 3/4" tall. The Bridgestone is 24" tall unmounted, so let's be generous and say that will be 25 1/4" when mounted & inflated to spec. Therefore, 26.75 - 25.25 = 1.5"

        Got it! With the R's and D's straight (radius and diameters): If I use the Bridgestone then the back of the bike will be 3/4" lower than it is now (1/2 of 1 1/2") and as you stated, the 130/90 Kenda is already an 1/2" lower (1/2 of 1") from the OEM 4.50H-17.

        Hey, guess it would be like switching to a 16" wheel. Maybe 100psi in the new tire might get me back that 1/2" ha-ha. Conclusion: What to do? It did the twisty's pretty good and handled fine even with the old oversized 110/90-19 Gold Seal Dunlop on the front and the 130/90-17 Kenda on the back. Do you think the less fat but not as tall Bridgestone on the Rear would be a real problem that would effect handling? I'm never 2up and Traxxion Dynamics is setting up the suspension to include the Weight of the Fairing (35 lbs) and Weight of the Rear Bags & Rack (35 lbs). Issue: Ditch the Bridgestone idea and find something else -or- try it for 10,000 miles??

        Thanks, Jeff
        78' XS1100 E
        78' XS1100 E
        78' XS1100 E

        '73 Norton 850 Commando
        '99 Triumph Sprint ST
        '02 G-Wing GL1800

        Comment


        • #5
          The 1/4" clearance on the shaft side of the swingarm is typical. The tire really doesn't flex any, you can cut that space down to almost nothing with no issues. The main thing with the 17" wheel is the closest size tire you can get to OEM that will fit is the 130/90-17.

          There's two concerns; diameter and load-carrying. The diameter will mean the motor will be spinning faster for a given speed, but you also have less rubber on the road so the smaller tire will wear out faster. As to load, it's not a huge deal, but again the lighter-rated tire will wear faster all else being equal.

          If you only ride one-up and it's a hassle to exchange the tire, run it. Two-up or 'stuff' packed on the bike, that could be marginal for load. Definitely swap to the larger size next time. If you get 5K out of that 120, I'll be surprised....
          Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

          '78E original owner - resto project
          '78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
          '82 XJ rebuild project
          '80SG restified, red SOLD
          '79F parts...
          '81H more parts...

          Other current bikes:
          '93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
          '86 XL883/1200 Chopper
          '82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
          Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
          Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Jeff,
            Wow that is great progress already. I run the 130/90/17 rear tire. Spitfire R11. Are you able to come to XSEast in Ohio memeorial week end?
            Phil
            1981 XS1100 H Venturer ( Addie)
            1983 XJ 650 Maxim
            2004 Kawasaki Concours. ( Black Bear)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by crazy steve View Post
              I will note that the 120/90-17 rear tire is too small; yes, I know if you use one of those 'conversion' charts from the OEM 4.50H-17 that's what comes out, but that size is waaay small for the bike. Look here for a size comparison....
              http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...highlight=tale

              Compared to a 130/90-17 (already small compared to the OEM 4.50H), you'll lose almost an inch of diameter with the 120, plus you'll lose about 80 lbs of load capability.
              Steve,

              I am going to respectfully disagree with you. I do not deny what came on the bike originally and how big it was. No arguement from me on that point. That original rear tire is NLA. Today's tire manufacturer tells me that the XS1100 rim is too narrow for their 130/90-17 tire. When they tell me that their tire requires a rim diameter of at least X.XX, that's what I'm going with. If I had a standard and insisted on a 130 wide tire, I'd go to the Special rim.

              If I chose to run a tire on what the manufacturer said was too narrow a rim and suffered a tire failure that caused serious injury or worse, what would the tire manufacturer say? What would the judge tell my widow, if it came to that? I know I'm suggesting the extreme, but it's a risk I wouldn't be willing to take. I know we'll have to agree to disagree on the subject, but I feel the need to put that out there. I have no hard feelings toward those who disagree.

              By my calculations, a 120/90-17 tire should be 25.5 inches in diameter. A 130/90-16 tire should be 25.2 inches in diameter. I'm not saying that's what the engineers 35 years ago intended, but that's the fact, if I did my math correctly.
              Last edited by jetmechmarty; 05-09-2012, 06:15 AM. Reason: content
              Marty (in Mississippi)
              XS1100SG
              XS650SK
              XS650SH
              XS650G
              XS6502F
              XS650E

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MaximPhil View Post
                Hi Jeff,
                Spitfire R11. Are you able to come to XSEast in Ohio memorial week end?
                Phil
                Our calendar/plans has been all screwed up since February (wifes brother in Sioux City died after struggling 1 1/2 years from no helmet 12mph bicycle crash in 2010). Trying to sort things out and get back on plan. Too early to tell for XSEast but for sure XSNorth in June. Plus, can't ride too far without tires!

                Jeff
                78' XS1100 E
                78' XS1100 E
                78' XS1100 E

                '73 Norton 850 Commando
                '99 Triumph Sprint ST
                '02 G-Wing GL1800

                Comment


                • #9
                  Okay, so Woodstock, GA is just a hop skip and a jump away. You are the second (at least) person I've seen mention Traxxion Dynamics installing cartridge emulators. How well did they do, do you like the mod, and what did it set you back?
                  XS11SH :: K&N Pods, 4->1, Dynojet kit, Barnett clutch springs, TC's fuse block, ATGATT

                  Well, goodness. Look what we've got here.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Tire Exchange

                    Originally posted by crazy steve View Post
                    The main thing with the 17" wheel is the closest size tire you can get to OEM that will fit is the 130/90-17.
                    For grins I checked the Bridgestone website to validate the Measured Rim size for the 120 - 17 that I just got for the rear. Correctamundo, but its even worse: Bridgestone Recommended Rim size for that tire is 2.75" with Measured Rim size at 2.15" to 3.00". Ain't even going to fit on my 3.5" Rim. Pulled out the verniers and yup, the 120-17 measures only 3.25" across so it wouldn't even pinch the 3.5" wide rim. So, back to the drawing board.

                    I am going to return both front & rear Bridgestones for even up exchange (that's nice and good customer service) and for fun try some matching Avons 100/90-19 and 130/90-17 which is what tire folks recommended. Now off to the Avon site to see what they say.

                    Glad we are having the 'discussion' now vs after I mauled and mutliated the tires (no refund) or worse wrecked from the blowout as the tube popped out the bead.

                    Jeff
                    78' XS1100 E
                    78' XS1100 E
                    78' XS1100 E

                    '73 Norton 850 Commando
                    '99 Triumph Sprint ST
                    '02 G-Wing GL1800

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Danny Crawdad View Post
                      Okay, so Woodstock, GA is just a hop skip and a jump away. You are the second (at least) person I've seen mention Traxxion Dynamics installing cartridge emulators. How well did they do, do you like the mod, and what did it set you back?
                      jetmech used their emulators in his rebuild. On jetmech recommendation I'm dropped off the forks and having them do it turnkey. Price is $450 for both forks -but- since I have 11E Touring model I am adding +35 lbs for the front fairing and +35 lbs for the rear luggage bags and rack (along with all the other rider and gear weights) they may charge me another $50 for custom wound springs to optimize performance.

                      Will not get the forks back until next week, but so far the customer service and info has been top-notch.

                      Jeff
                      78' XS1100 E
                      78' XS1100 E
                      78' XS1100 E

                      '73 Norton 850 Commando
                      '99 Triumph Sprint ST
                      '02 G-Wing GL1800

                      Comment


                      • #12


                        What is the width of the rear wheel on a Special? The standard?

                        Avon says:
                        Roadrider 130/90-17 Rim 2.5 to 3.5

                        Dunlop D404 specs a 3.00 rim

                        I may be misinformed on what tire with is acceptable on the standard rim.
                        Marty (in Mississippi)
                        XS1100SG
                        XS650SK
                        XS650SH
                        XS650G
                        XS6502F
                        XS650E

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I found the thread where we went through this before.

                          http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...m+width&page=3

                          Some tires spec a 2.5 rim and some others spec larger. I'm down with that.
                          Marty (in Mississippi)
                          XS1100SG
                          XS650SK
                          XS650SH
                          XS650G
                          XS6502F
                          XS650E

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jetmechmarty View Post
                            Steve,

                            I am going to respectfully disagree with you. I do not deny what came on the bike originally and how big it was. No arguement from me on that point. That original rear tire is NLA. Today's tire manufacturer tells me that the XS1100 rim is too narrow for their 130/90-17 tire. When they tell me that their tire requires a rim diameter of at least X.XX, that's what I'm going with. If I had a standard and insisted on a 130 wide tire, I'd go to the Special rim.

                            If I chose to run a tire on what the manufacturer said was too narrow a rim and suffered a tire failure that caused serious injury or worse, what would the tire manufacturer say? What would the judge tell my widow, if it came to that? I know I'm suggesting the extreme, but it's a risk I wouldn't be willing to take. I know we'll have to agree to disagree on the subject, but I feel the need to put that out there. I have no hard feelings toward those who disagree.

                            By my calculations, a 120/90-17 tire should be 25.5 inches in diameter. A 130/90-16 tire should be 25.2 inches in diameter. I'm not saying that's what the engineers 35 years ago intended, but that's the fact, if I did my math correctly.
                            Marty, you're getting all het up over nothing...

                            First, those rim widths are recommendations, not requirements. If you ask them, a 1/2" variation either way is acceptable (and many times, shown as ok). Bridgestone for one doesn't even list a 17" rear tire for a 'recommended' 2.5" wide rim (the actual width of the standard rear rim); the 120/90-17 comes closest, but is listed for a 2.75" wide rim. So are you going to sideline your bike or do a wheel swap because you can't find a tire that 'fits' those narrow parameters?

                            Next is load rating, a far more important issue IMO. There's a difference of nearly 80 lbs between the 120 (at 617 lbs) and 130 (at 694) tires (these numbers are off the Bridgestone site and are for the same tire model in the two sizes), enough to be a concern. These are large heavy bikes, and it would be pretty easy to overload the lighter-rated 'undersized' tire. FYI, the 'OEM' 4.50H was rated at 670 lbs (shown in the FSM, and verified on my 'vintage' Conti), over 50 lbs more than a 120. This is IMO a far more important 'spec' than rim width and in your hypothetical conversation with your widow I can hear it being said that the tire load rating was lower than OEM so you made a judgement error is fitting a too-small tire...

                            This info is all in the service manual. Interesting reading....

                            Weight on rear wheel, stock bike with all fluids: 333 lbs.

                            Add rider weight, and let's say it splits evenly F/R, 200 lb rider. Now you're up to 433 lbs on the rear. Add a passenger (at let's say 150 lbs, and this will be all on the rear wheel), now you're up to 583 lbs. Still haven't added for accessories (like a luggage rack, sissy bar, saddlebags, etc), much less any personal luggage if traveling. Your 'margin' with the smaller tire is now down to 34 lbs, vs 100+ lbs with a 'correct' load-range tire. It would take very little to eat that up (heavier rider/passenger, saddlebags, etc) and now you've overloaded that tire.

                            I know what I'd be concerned about....
                            Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

                            '78E original owner - resto project
                            '78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
                            '82 XJ rebuild project
                            '80SG restified, red SOLD
                            '79F parts...
                            '81H more parts...

                            Other current bikes:
                            '93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
                            '86 XL883/1200 Chopper
                            '82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
                            Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
                            Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I know what I'd be concerned about....
                              I did get so concerned about a tire I considered pinched too much that I failed to consider the load rating. On my own bike I installed the highest load rating available. The 130 wide tire has a much different appearance on the Special.

                              In a few days I'll go home and give you guys a break. I'm not busy enough at work right now.
                              Marty (in Mississippi)
                              XS1100SG
                              XS650SK
                              XS650SH
                              XS650G
                              XS6502F
                              XS650E

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X