Anyone with transmission knowledge...help!

[BillyRok]

I back cut my gears and did the washer swap, got the counter shaft back in. Tested things to make sure everything went around OK and ran into a glitch. The dogs on 5th gear are rubbing against 2nd gear...it turns freely when the dogs in 5th are opposite the slots in 2nd but then keep turning the shaft and the dogs "climb" up onto the surface between the slots. It seems the 2 gears are now too close together after moving the washer from between 2nd and 5th to behind 2nd.

The other thing I discovered is my counter shaft has 2 additional spacers or washers not shown in the manual. They are next to each other and are between the middle drive gear and the bearing on the clutch side. They measure .013 and .062 inches thick. I'm thinking out loud here but doesn't this mean that the whole shaft is .075 inches shifted towards 5th gear? And since the backside of 2nd gear (no washer there originally B4 the washer swap) rides against a flange on the counter shaft, doesn't that mean that 2nd gear is closer to 5th gear since 5th gear is held in the same spot on the shaft by the shifting fork? Do you think this was a PO's idea to accomplish what the washer swap does?

Looking forward to hearing what you think and how best to fix this. Thanks

[DGXSER]

I believe you are correct. The middle driven gear is against the bearing tht first gear rides on. This is gainst the C-Clip between first and fourth. Fourth slides back and forth by the shift fork. Putting those washers in between the middle driven and engine case/bearing can be pushing the countershaft toward fifth gear side. Second gear is firmly in place on the shaft, move the shaft, move second gear. As you pointed out, fifth is located by the shift fork. So yes, moving the shaft toward fifth will decrease the distance between fifth and second gears.

If this the PO answer to the skipping gear, he was reasonably creative, but missed the mark as this would have the same effect on first and fourth which may also have this interferance occuring.

The solution, unfortunately, involves removing the countershaft. My suggestion, lose the spare washers the PO put in place.

[BA80]

When you do the 2nd gear washer swap the dogs will be close together and seem to hit for a little bit because there is a little bit of a tapered shoulder on the shaft where the gear goes up against normally. When the thing is running they won't hit because the movement will push them back.

After a bit of running the washer will wear a taper to match the shaft. Unless you want to try and make one.

The extra washers I'll have to investigate further to have a solid opinion on. Meantime if I was you I would make certain there are no washers elswhere that aren't where they are supposed to be. They may have been transposed in reassembly at one time.

[BA80]

Come to think of it, if you moved the washer to the other side of the 5th gear wheel that's wrong anyway. The washer needs to be moved to the other side of the 2nd gear wheel.



#17 needs to go on the other side of #16.

[BillyRok]

Here's a picture (not a very good one, look to the upper right) of the "extra" washers, you can see them between the bearing and the end of the counter shaft.



http://s1249.photobucket.com/albums/...gearfix008.jpg

It wasn't easy to keep from dropping them into the motor as I was sliding the middle driven gear and 1st gear far enough out to the end of the shaft to clear the gears below and drop down. If the washers slipped off the end of the shaft, they would drop down a little and make it impossible to get the end of the shaft through the bearing. Then once I did get it back together, I found that the 5th gear dogs are pressing against 2nd gear. I can really feel the dogs drop into the slots and then climb back out as I turn the middle drive coupler.

I think tomorrow I will pull the shaft back out and remove those 2 extra washers. It's one thing to do the washer swap to shim 2nd gear closer to 5th, only 2nd gear is moved...everything else is still in the exact same place. These extra washers have moved the whole assembly including 2nd gear .075 inches closer to 5th (which is still held in it's original position by the shifting fork), and then I moved 2nd even closer to 5th by doing the washer swap. And the ends of the shaft are now in different positions inside the bearings from where they were designed to be (to what effect I don't know).

I'll take a few pictures tomorrow when I go back into the belly of the beast.

[BillyRok]

Aw nuts, the picture didn't post. I moved the washer from between 2nd and the circlip to the other side of 2nd, between 2nd and flange on the shaft.

Try again with the picture...although it's not there when I preview the post

[BA80]

To post a pic from photobucket, hover the cursor over the pic you want. A dropdown will appear below the pic and you want to click on the IMG code. Second from the bottom. When you click on the code it will say "copied" in the box. then all you have to do is paste it to the post where you want it to appear.


magic

[BillyRok]

[IMG][/IMG]

There...the magic is back

[BA80]

still don't see the washers you speak of.

[jwhughes3]

Just match manual

Id get rid of anything that didnt match the way its listed.

John

[trbig]

There's supposed to be just one washer between 1st gear and the circlip that sits between 1st and 4th. But, I wonder if someone tried to do like I did? I measured the thickness of that washer between 1st/4th, then found a washer online that size, but exactly half the thickness. I put one of these washers in it's original spot and one between 1st and the middle drive gear.

I was trying to see if moving 1st towards 4th would help it engage just a bit deeper like the washer move on 2nd does. This washer swap effectively moved 1st gear half the thickness of that washer towards 4th. It didn't work out well. While in 4th, 1st and 4th would mesh a bit and it wiped out my 1st gear in just a few hundred miles.

So... maybe this was what they had in mind?

[BillyRok]

It's taken a few days because of my work schedule but I got my transmission put back together. Here are a couple of better pics of the extra washers I had asked about.
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

The only other thing that threw me was clip #30 in the picture in post #4. At first I thought it was supposed to be on the end of the shaft, but please tell me it sits in a groove in the side of the case and holds the bearing in place!

Thanks for the help

[Rasputin]

IIRC the beneficial site tells you which washer and the thickness of each. I am old enough to forget such things so forgive me if I am wrong. here is the link. http://www.benefiscal.co.uk/index.php

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Billy,

Yes, the exploded view above doesn't show the engine case, and that #30 C-clip is the one that holds the bearing into the case.

There was a tech bulletin by Yamaha, where they changed/used a different sized bearing there, and so they used a different sized washer/spacer for that bearing.

Also the bolt that secures the countershaft...on the earlier models, it just shows the large head/flange bolt combo as 1 piece, but due to the thinner bearing, they added an extra washer which has a groove/lip on it, and so it's important to get that washer well centered in the large bolt head before trying to torque it down to the 51 ft/lbs, otherwise it can work loose!

I'm glad Tod posted, I remembered "someone" that had tried putting washers on the end of the countershaft and that it didn't work out, but couldn't remember exactly who it was!

T.C.