Tank Liner REMOVAL help

[zookey]

So here is the deal... My husband's XS11 started leaking gas out of the underside of his tank last fall shortly before the riding season was over. The underside of the tank would always be damp when we would look but could never actually SEE the leak. Over winter almost an entire tank of gas leaked out, so he decided we needed to clean the tank and line it OR get it welded/soldered somewhere.

He purchased a liner kit with the needed materials to degrease, Prep, and line the tank. The instructions said to wash the tank with the degreaser, allow to dry up to 48 hours, then use 1/2 the can of Prep sloshing, allow to stand a short time, slosh, drain. Repeat with the second 1/2 of the container of Prep but allow to stand 60-90 minutes.

Well this is where we are stuck..... the tank had been lined by someone before us. The company swears their Prep stuff will wash out the old liner. The prep is 100% Acetone. So we added the 1/2 can of Prep, sloshed, waited, sloshed and dumped. (Man, a bunch of hunks of cream colored crap came out of the tank -- I am assuming it was lined with CREAM) Added the other 1/2 can of Prep and followed the instructions to a T..... this time the drained Prep was cream colored BUT (here is the problem) there is Cream colored goooo all over inside the tank. It is softened but will not let loose from the sidewalls of the tank.

So we purchased a full Gallon of Acetone, we have added about a 1/2 pint to the tank with a chain and shaken, let sit, shaken dumped.... still chunks of crap. We have repeated this over and over..... after the last time through this process tonight we can still see a light residue in the tank.... or what looks like residue. We have stuck a cloth covered screwdriver in the filler hole to "wipe" this out, but the rag comes out clean.

We know the new liner will not adhere to the old liner stuff. Anyone have any suggestions on how to get this old cream stuff out of the tank completely? .... and how do I KNOW that this is all out before taking the chance of relining and having it fail?

[natemoen]

About all you can do is keep cleaning with acetone.

[jetmechmarty]

I just took this from the Caswell Plating website:

When recoating your gas tank from failed Kreem or POR-15 tank sealers, remove the old, failed coating using a paint stripper containing Methylene Chloride.

[Aches n Pains]

Just be very careful with MEK. That is really nasty stuff.

[WSL91]

We know the new liner will not adhere to the old liner stuff. Anyone have any suggestions on how to get this old cream stuff out of the tank completely? .... and how do I KNOW that this is all out before taking the chance of relining and having it fail?

Know anyone with a tractor? This is me cleaning the tank on my Honda Shadow. Tractor jacked up, hand full of small river rock (very hard, semi round) in the tank, and tractor in low gear and running. NOTE: Probably defies most OSHA regulations.

[zookey]

Cool tractor.... looks like a little Ford 8N??

So how did you seal the chemical into the tank so it wouldn't run out the filler hole or the petcock holes? I have been using duck tape and tin foil, but the Acetone makes quick work of the adhesives and begin to leak.

I understand that I just need to keep cleaning and cleaning. Tumbling with the assistance of a motor looks like a good idea, at least much easier on my arms and back then to keep shaking this tank. But this also raises another question.... how do you get the rocks (chains, nuts, bolts, rocks) back out of the tank? Our tank has about a 1 inch lip that goes into the tank around the filler neck so stuff will but up against it and not fall back out the filler hole.

So when I do accomplish cleaning all this out, I will know because the chemical coming out will look just like it did going in?

Thank you guys.... You will never know how much I appreciate your help and first hand experiences.

[fredintoon]

Cool tractor.... looks like a little Ford 8N??

So how did you seal the chemical into the tank so it wouldn't run out the filler hole or the petcock holes? I have been using duck tape and tin foil, but the Acetone makes quick work of the adhesives and begin to leak.

I understand that I just need to keep cleaning and cleaning. Tumbling with the assistance of a motor looks like a good idea, at least much easier on my arms and back then to keep shaking this tank. But this also raises another question.... how do you get the rocks (chains, nuts, bolts, rocks) back out of the tank? Our tank has about a 1 inch lip that goes into the tank around the filler neck so stuff will but up against it and not fall back out the filler hole.

So when I do accomplish cleaning all this out, I will know because the chemical coming out will look just like it did going in?

Thank you guys.... You will never know how much I appreciate your help and first hand experiences.

Hi Zookey,
I made blanking plates from 1/8" thick aluminum sheetmetal and used gaskets cut from an old innertube.
A length of dog leash or similar chain is easiest, you can fish it out with a magnet on a stick.
Note for future reference:- If you use chain to scour out a Standard tank it may jam around the filler cap drain tube and refuse to be pulled out.
When Mr. Stupid did this, he then compounded his foolishness by destroying the tank in a removal attempt rather than simply leaving the chain in there.
BTW, how to fix pinholes.
Paint strip the tank.
Pour it full of kerosine or diesel fuel and see where it leaks out.
Dump out the kero and blow dry the tank with an air hose.
Sand each pinhole area bright & shiny.
Dent each pinhole inwards with a centerpunch and a light tap with a hammer.
Use a BIG soldering iron (100Watts minimum) lotsa flux and plumbers solder to over-fill each dent then file the solder flush.
Think about not bothering to re-seal the tank.

[zookey]

Thank you for your response fredintoon! I think we will make the plates, will need them when I repaint anyway.... I have LARGE areas of missing paint now due to the Acetone soaking into the adhesive, came off in cool bubbly mess.

Bought Airplane stripper to remove the rest of the paint and plan on getting some auto 2-part paint when ready to repaint. Wish me luck (will have to take pictures!)

[WSL91]

Cool tractor.... looks like a little Ford 8N??

So how did you seal the chemical into the tank so it wouldn't run out the filler hole or the petcock holes? I have been using duck tape and tin foil, but the Acetone makes quick work of the adhesives and begin to leak.

I understand that I just need to keep cleaning and cleaning. Tumbling with the assistance of a motor looks like a good idea, at least much easier on my arms and back then to keep shaking this tank. But this also raises another question.... how do you get the rocks (chains, nuts, bolts, rocks) back out of the tank? Our tank has about a 1 inch lip that goes into the tank around the filler neck so stuff will but up against it and not fall back out the filler hole.

So when I do accomplish cleaning all this out, I will know because the chemical coming out will look just like it did going in?

Thank you guys.... You will never know how much I appreciate your help and first hand experiences.

I used a BIG rubber stopper in the fill hole and small one for the tap. This tank was wide open so no problem with anything getting stuck, I did that on a Ferguson tank. This tractor is a 43 2n which is most usually mistaken for a 9n, very little difference but it is a 2n. All the Ns are very similar and share many parts.

[zookey]

Update on the sealing of the tank

Finally got the tank clean and clear of the old Kream liner. Had a outboard motor stand on wheels that we inverted in the garage and strapped to the work benches. Then strapped the tank to the outside wheel, and manually spun the wheel/tank until the acetone came out just as clear as it went in.

Fully stripped all the paint. Checked for leaks. In one way we were lucky and there were no pinholes. Just a very slight seep at the seams. Welding we thought would be the best bet so took it to, first a radiator shop and they won't work on any gas tanks. Then took it to a machine shop who does welding, also refused to work on a gas tank. Then took it to an old guy who does mobile welding..... he told us the weld would be strongest from inside the tank (which he couldn't do) and he could not guarantee that he could weld it good enough to stop the leak. Finally took it to a body shop who told us to just seal it with Kream....... So we finally sealed it with the Northern Tank Sealer we originally bought.

Good news is that after sealing and letting stand for their recommended time for superior drying, then painting and clear coating, reassembly of tank/petcocks/fuel sending unit ect......

He has had the tank back on the bike for about two weeks now and there is NO MORE LEAKS in the gas tank!!

[jetmechmarty]

I am now going through this myself. It is being chronicled here:
XS650 Garage Tank Liner Failed

[jetmechmarty]

I just took this from the Caswell Plating website:

This is what I did and it did not work. The liner did not dissolve or turn loose. I need a solvent to remove the old liner.

[jetmechmarty]

My daughter's idea of help.

[crazy steve]

My daughter's idea of help.

She's messin' with you....

[MPittma100]

Tank Repair

The tank liner chemical process is definitely a lot of trouble. My first choice would be to weld the hole up. And the very best and the only type of weld that will absolutely do the job the best is brazing (oxy-acetylene). Lots of "welders" do not know how to braze any more, but I can testify to it's durability. I have brazed many a gas tank, air compressor tank, oil pan, steel hydraulic lines, etc. It does the job and can be sanded, ground smooth, and painted. Yes, you will have to repaint at least partially. Brazing stops fluid leaks - static or pressure. Soldering, JB welding - does not do the job.

MP