Legal title

[BA80]

We use to be able to scrap non-titled cars.... then people started making drugs in the bath tub of their trailer. Meth heads steal everything they can get their paws on and take it to Metro Metals. Now when you go to the scrap yard there's cops stationed there.

As for the the title thing... its all about money. if you think the state you live in really cares if your crap gets stolen then your more hopeful than me.

as you well know Steve here in Washington they tax the tax on your tax.... We pay a fee per lb of your vehicle here in Clark County, then they tax that fee. then you pay a service charge to get the paperwork done and I'm sure they tax that too. The lady you get the paperwork from is pocketing a cool 50k plus salary and great state benefits you just paid for... If we could all be that lucky

Heh heh......you said what I wanted to say.......

[ddragon63]

Heh heh......you said what I wanted to say.......

Your welcome BA

I sell around the Portland, OR area and as much as I love to make money off welding cable it pisses me off when I have to sell a customer 1000 feet of 2/0 cable and 20 Tweco connectors cuz some crack head broke into his yard and stole all the copper that wasn't bolted down. It's not the way I like to make money. Course I'm not gonna pass the sale off to someone else

[tom clisham]

United States of America

James, you're lucky in as much as the UK apparently has 'uniform' regulations for this. Here, each state has quite a bit of leeway in how they do this, probably more akin to you trying to buy/sell a vehicle with somebody from another country.

Regarding the 50 states having different regulations & laws:
James, Ever since the original 13 colonies freed the UK from this territory each state is actually a soveriegn entity. Actually seperate nation-states. The only legal power the federal government has is that granted by the states. This is similar to the emerging European Union.

The regulation of property ownership is one that the original 13 states absolutely did not want controlled by a federal government. Had some issues with the previous government.

Thus, All states will have different laws in perpetuity in this regard. Interesting,Huh?

[ViperRon]

dissagreement

Tom I agree with what you said about the Federal government only having powers over what the state gives but in reality that has been changing more and more to where states actually have to fight to retain control. Some time back I even heard the current president make the remark that the only right of private ownership that people have over their land is what is given to them by the government.

[BA80]

+1 Ron. DAMN! I'm really trying to stay out of this.

[crazy steve]

...As for the the title thing... its all about money. if you think the state you live in really cares if your crap gets stolen then your more hopeful than me.

I'll at least partially disagree with you on that. If that were the case, you wouldn't have this maze to thread if you have a other than 'clear' title; the state would just take your money and hand over a title. At one time Washington state took this pretty seriously, with virtually any vehicle that came in from out of state requiring a state patrol inspection before you could get a Washington title. But the problem was that nobody wanted to police this; the patrol hated doing it and the increase of vehicles coming in overwhelmed the system. So the legislature 'liberalised' the procedure, eliminating the inspection requirement for out of state vehicles with 'clear' titles but tightening up the paper trail for anything with a 'other' type title or no title. The big fly in the ointment is the state purges any vehicle that hasn't been licensed in the last 5 years completely out of the system, so if you don't have anything to prove ownership, the vehicle doesn't exist. But the idea was to catch the vin plate swappers, and to that extent it usually worked; the last time I had one inspected, the guy said they caught about 4-5 a month at their location, and most new 'owners' were unaware.

As to the 'money' thing, blame that on Tim Eyman's initative to reduce license fees. Before that, you had uniform fees state wide and the state doled the money out according to need (with larger counties subsidizing smaller ones). After that, the state had limits on what it could charge, but now the counties were free to add any 'local' fees they felt they needed, and most did. Sometimes a 'fix' has unintended consequences....

[James England]

I'm sure it's no more a nightmare than the system there, just different.

No. it definitely is much worse over there, I assure you. Firstly, as people have pointed out, you have 52 different systems whereas we have only one. Secondly, whilst our V5 does not prove ownership, it does show the registered keeper and is very easy to obtain and therefore get a bike back onto the road. It's virtually a dream system from that point of view. The main difference, of course, is that our vehicles have a registration number for life, whereas yours don't? Do they? Or does that depend on the state too?

[crazy steve]

...The main difference, of course, is that our vehicles have a registration number for life, whereas yours don't? Do they? Or does that depend on the state too?

It's the vin (vehicle identification number) here that follows the vehicle; any other number will vary state by state...

This is usually only in two places on a bike (frame/motor), but up to six on a car/truck. God help you if they don't all agree during a inspection.... at least some places.

[BA80]

I would like to know when we got the extra 2 states because I missed that.

The systems actually work pretty well together. The registration numbers (tag numbers) for the vehicle stay the same in some states as long as the vehicle stays in THAT state or until the tag itself wears out and becomes unusable.

Some states the tag number will change with a change in ownership. It seems confusing but not really.

Yes, it does depend on the state.

[fredintoon]

Soooooo, If you're just the keeper, then who owns the bike?
Your king?

Hi Joe,
no, most likely the finance company. See what happens to your bike when you miss a payment.
FYI, the monarch owns a Brit's loyalty but not his stuff. There were civil wars and beheadings about that back in the day.

[joceiphus]

FYI, the monarch owns a Brit's loyalty but not his stuff. There were civil wars and beheadings about that back in the day.

Hi Fred,
How old were you when all that happened?

[DGXSER]

The money part is where it all starts going haywire depending on what State, or Commonwealth your in. Here in Ohio, you get a registration number, and a plate which will have a different combination of letters and numbers totaling no more than 7 digits, personalized if you want to pay for that. Also, here in Ohio, and in Kentucky and Indiana, I know for certain they only look at the Vin of a car that is on the tag seen through the windshield. Same on a bike, only the VIN on the neck matters. The rest can be whatever they are.

Now, in Ohio, you pay a set fee for your registration annually. There is a different fee for trucks than cars, but they are the same for a 1994 Chevy Silverado as for a 2012 Dodge Ram. As where in Kentucky and Indiana, you pay a percentage of the vehicles value for your plate. So that 2012 Ram will cost you easily ten times the 94 Silverado.

Yep, moving from one state to another can REALLY complicate things. You have to change the registration of your vehicles, get a new drivers license. You also have to get your insurance from a new agent, because they are licensed by state so the one you had can not typically sell you insurance in your new state. Living at the juncture of three states has some "educational" value about such things.

[JasonRedbeard]

I would like to know when we got the extra 2 states because I missed that.

Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands are considered U.S. Territories these days. They're not full states yet (that count is still at 50) but they could be in due time.

There's a whole list of Pacific islands that fall into the same category, Guam being the most notable.

[cywelchjr]

Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands are considered U.S. Territories these days. They're not full states yet (that count is still at 50) but they could be in due time.

There's a whole list of Pacific islands that fall into the same category, Guam being the most notable.

Right, but they have their own vehicle registration laws and such just like states and the district of columbia do. Actually IIRC Puerto Rico is different than the others, being actually a different animal than the others having a unique status among them, and has actually almost become the 51st state a couple of times. It's likely if there were to be ANY additions to the states that it would be added at that point, but that's not the point, but rather that there are at LEAST 52 sets of title/reg laws, maybe more.

[Jerry]

As has already been said, vehicle title law in the United States varies a great deal from state to state. In Wisconsin I could buy a vehicle with no title, apply for one, pay the various fees and get inspections by the correct law enforcment agency, then take the resulting paperwork and get a full title, used to register the vehilce. I did this with an '82 XS 400 Maxim and a couple cars.

Here in Colorado, if a vehilce has no title, you can still get it titled after a long legal process that includes posting a "bond", which is a type of insurance policy. Again, ater inspections and paperwork, you can get a title, but it is subject to a claim by the original owner for a period of a couple years. After that, if no claim comes forward, the vehicle is yours and the bond can be dropped.

When I bought my XJ from a guy in Maine, he had no title, just a bill of sale. That was enough for me to get a title in Wisconsin, because Wisconsin knows Maine does not issue titles in the same manner as Wisconsin does.

The short summary is that one needs to know what process his/her state has in place to deal with getting a title for a vechicle that does not have one. In most cases, the vehicle is probably not worth the time and effort needed, unless the vehicle is somehow of note or special interest. My first XS, a '79 Standard, had no tilte but I was able to contact the original owner who applied for a duplicate title, received it, then signed it over to me. That was a long shot, as the current owner does not normally know the previous owner, or know where the PO lives. I got lucky!

Another confusion factor is that the laws change constantly, ususally making it much more difficult to title a vehicle. Even if you have gone through the process, as I have in 2 states, you need to confirm there have been no recent changes.

On the other hand, titles for non-motorized vehicles (trailers) is pretty simple. If you build a trailer you fill out a form, pay tax on the estimated value, and you get a vehicle identification number, ususally on some type of metalic sticker, and a title. Generally you get a license plate at the same time.

Some states, like Wisconsin, don't (or didn't) require license plates on trailers at all due to the large farming community. Farmers tend to have lots of trailers for hauling hay and other products, and did not want to have to pay license fees on them. Colorado and Arizona, on the other hand, require all trailers to be licensed. Again, one has to check with his/her state to see what requirements are in place.

I would not necessarily passs on an XS or XJ with no title, but realize getting legal documentation (a title) is, or could be, a long and involved process, and is not cheap. The selling price would have to reflect that.

Other vehicles, such as snowmobiles, all terrain vehicles, and boats generally have some type of document that acts as a title for registration purposes. While not as complicated as other motorized vehicles, one does need a document to apply for the various permits needed to operate these toys on public lands or waterways. I have registration documents for both my ATV and snowmobile, and if you look at photos of these units you can see the registration stickers on them. Some states, such as Arizona, allow ATVs to be registered for road use with some restrictions, other states to not allow such usage. Again, one has to check his/her state's regulations to know for sure.

Keeping track of titles is just one more organizational problem. I have 3 car titles, an ATV tiltle, a snowmobile title, 2 motorcycle titles, and 2 trailer titles. 9 total, and I consider myself average. I know many people who have far more toys than that.