Clutch plates 101

[KA1J]

My clutch slips on my XJ11, not bad but it will 100% of the time when I WOT at 5K & up. It did this when I bought the bike but never having this powerful of a bike before I thought it was because of the acceleration I got at that time; that fast increasing RPM change was involved in some screwy but impressive power curve response. Hey, live & learn, right?... Anyway, the slippage is worse after 4.5K of riding. Fortunately there's no gear slippage issues so far, just clutch. I don't shift hard but I do like to crank the throttle once in awhile once I'm solidly in a gear.

OK so now's the time to decide what to do. I've read & heard that replacing the old stock springs with performance springs alone will be sufficient to both stop the slippage but also to remove the need to replace any friction plates. I ordered a set of Barnett clutch springs & they are set aside to put in. I looked around for the prices of regular friction plates and found different prices; from one major supplier to the XJ world they are $80 for 8 of the hard cork variety. From another internet vendor I found the Barnett Kevlar friction plates ( 301-90-10005 ) are $98 for 8, a $18 difference.

So is there a benefit I'd see from the Kevlar plates? I mean, bulletproof vests & my dental floss are Kevlar & that's sure stronger than cork... But is there an advantage a non racer will see & also, is there a disadvantage to Kevlar friction plates I might expect?

The Barnett metal plates ( 401-90-078020 ) are $35 for 7 & if I'm changing friction plates, should I replace the metal ones as well with the Barnett matching set?

Any thoughts from prior experience with these?

Thanks!

[BA80]

You probably don't need any other clutch parts other than the Barnett springs. You already have the springs, put them in. It takes about a half hour or 45 minutes and I can almost guarantee that will solve the problem completely.

[TADracer]

Not sure how many miles you have on the clutch but unless you are approaching a billion your frictions are probably in spec. Measure them before you just get rid of them. Thickness should be .12" and .11" is the wear limit (according to Clymers). So if your frictions are over .11", keep them. I have no experience with Kevlar plates.

I solved my clutch slipping problems with some EBC heavy springs and removing any burnishing from the steels with some wet-n-dry sandpaper. Then there is always the extra steel trick to add depth to the pack if your frictions are getting close to the wear limit. Both cheap fixes.

[natemoen]

After 5000 miles of slipping I would bet the steels are glazed over (sand them some to fix) and the frictions could be bad, but check first.

[motoman]

+1 Gregs statement. Also make dern sure it is adjusted correctly at the clutch throw-out bearing BEFORE attaching cable!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there KA1J,

I didn't see in your signature list of work/mods what OIL you are using? Not wanting to turn this into another oil thread, but with a weak/marginal clutch assembly...and yours IS...slipping, so Full Synth type oils have been reported to aggravate this slippage.

As stated, you probably have glazed steels. If been running synth, would recommend getting some inexpensive regular motor oil....30 weight even, to drain synth, refill with cheap stuff, and then add several ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil, good for removing varnish, and could help flush the remaining affects of the synth out/off the frictions. Just run the engine on idle, NO LOAD or revving/riding, just up to warm up temp, usually 5-10 minutes...fan across headers/engine. Then drain cheap/MMO blend, then take clutch cover off to proceed with clutch work. As stated, wet/dry sandpaper/emory cloth to the steels. The frictions in MM's 3.00 to 2.80 min wear limit.

If you need to replace, check out www.partsnmore.com, they have them for like $5.00 a plate...only $40-50 a set.

T.C.

[skids]

[QUOTE=TADracer;355837]Thickness should be .12" and .11" is the wear limit (according to Clymers). So if your frictions are over .11", keep them. QUOTE]

I clean the plates (to remove oil film thickness) and stack them for the total thickness, then divide by the number of plates...or of course you can become intimate with your caliper meter tool!

[BA80]

I clean the plates (to remove oil film thickness) and stack them for the total thickness, then divide by the number of plates...or of course you can become intimate with your caliper meter tool!

So, if you have 3 XS400s you actually have an XS1200?

[Rasputin]

As far as cleaning the steels go, as long as they are not burnt blue, Simply put them in a bath of Evapo-rust for a couple of hours. They will come out looking brand new. Any tarnish, deposits unknown etc will be gone and all you have to do is rinse them with water before re-installation. No need for sanding, rubbing or general wishing, it simply works. It will take about a quart "or in other terms 8 bucks worth" to do the job. Then you still have the evapo-rust for other jobs. Amazing stuff with many uses.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Miles?

Didnt see the miles on the bike. If it has been slipping for some time and run hard durring the slipping, you could have burned up the clutchs, but very unlikly in these bikes. Follow TC's clean out the crank case stuff, put in the new springs if the discs dont looked fried, refill with "motorcycle" 20w50 oil, adjust the clutch at the case, then at the handlebar and should be 100% good IMHO Good luck with your bike

[KA1J]

Dagnabit... I had a reply that answered everything above & the computer locked & I lost it all... @#$%

In short... The PO was less than forthcoming about the history so I don't know how it was for it's first 18K It now has 23K & I put that on last year. At first it only slipped under WOT ataround 6.5K & up under WOT, never in normal driving.

Around 400 miles ago I put in Amsoil, the same wet clutch type I use in my XJ650 Maxim & the 650 never has slipped at all. With the XJ11 though, that little slippage at the highest RPMs became more noticeable and at a slightly lower RPM. I quickly replaced the amsoil with 20-50 Castrol wet clutch oil which is in there now. It didn't make the slippage act like it did before changing oil. I've never run it hard when the clutch slipped, I always backed off immediately.

Thanks to the help here on XS11.com I've been able to do a tremendous amount on this bike without extra hands but I'm a bit hesitant to do the clutch without assistance. If I saw it done once or had a guide with me I'd feel better about it. Seems like the best easy thing is to replace the springs with the Barnett ones & see if that fixes the issue. I'd really though prefer not to go back into it & do it over again if changing the springs wasn't enough.

Details, details...

[cywelchjr]

Dagnabit... I had a reply that answered everything above & the computer locked & I lost it all... @#$%

In short... The PO was less than forthcoming about the history so I don't know how it was for it's first 18K It now has 23K & I put that on last year. At first it only slipped under WOT ataround 6.5K & up under WOT, never in normal driving.

Around 400 miles ago I put in Amsoil, the same wet clutch type I use in my XJ650 Maxim & the 650 never has slipped at all. With the XJ11 though, that little slippage at the highest RPMs became more noticeable and at a slightly lower RPM. I quickly replaced the amsoil with 20-50 Castrol wet clutch oil which is in there now. It didn't make the slippage act like it did before changing oil. I've never run it hard when the clutch slipped, I always backed off immediately.

Thanks to the help here on XS11.com I've been able to do a tremendous amount on this bike without extra hands but I'm a bit hesitant to do the clutch without assistance. If I saw it done once or had a guide with me I'd feel better about it. Seems like the best easy thing is to replace the springs with the Barnett ones & see if that fixes the issue. I'd really though prefer not to go back into it & do it over again if changing the springs wasn't enough.

Details, details...

One of the issues I've heard with these clutches is that they don't like to have the TYPE of oil changed on them. So once thats done they may never stop slipping. If that's the case you MIGHT need new frictions, but if you do the good news is that you should be able to use your amsoil by soaking the new frictions in the amsoil as their first oil and only using that on them. They should then get along fine with it. As a matter of fact, I've heard rumor of cork style clutches run in on synthetic oil being changed to dino oil and then slipping, the rule of thumb with wet clutches being to break them in with the same type of oil you intend to run them with.

That said, these engines if taken reasonable care of, will run over 100,000 miles on good old dino oil, so synthetic is pretty much overkill on them.

[BA80]

Dagnabit... I had a reply that answered everything above & the computer locked & I lost it all... @#$%

In short... The PO was less than forthcoming about the history so I don't know how it was for it's first 18K It now has 23K & I put that on last year. At first it only slipped under WOT ataround 6.5K & up under WOT, never in normal driving.

Around 400 miles ago I put in Amsoil, the same wet clutch type I use in my XJ650 Maxim & the 650 never has slipped at all. With the XJ11 though, that little slippage at the highest RPMs became more noticeable and at a slightly lower RPM. I quickly replaced the amsoil with 20-50 Castrol wet clutch oil which is in there now. It didn't make the slippage act like it did before changing oil. I've never run it hard when the clutch slipped, I always backed off immediately.

Thanks to the help here on XS11.com I've been able to do a tremendous amount on this bike without extra hands but I'm a bit hesitant to do the clutch without assistance. If I saw it done once or had a guide with me I'd feel better about it. Seems like the best easy thing is to replace the springs with the Barnett ones & see if that fixes the issue. I'd really though prefer not to go back into it & do it over again if changing the springs wasn't enough.

Details, details...

Here is a writeup TC did a while back the explains the disassembly/assembly pretty well. The extra steel should only be used as a last resort though in my opinion.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9481

[Lonerider62]

I wouldn't worry too much about the oil's act in your slipping problem, although many manufacturers caution against mixing oils because of the unknown interaction of different chemicals. That said, if the clutch is slipping, I'd do the springs and friction plates if they are out of spec. I've found that generally both the friction and steel plates will last a long time if the oil is changed on schedule and there isn't a lot of abuse. If you are the user who likes to do 7000 grand clutch dumps and burn-outs, you could destroy even the best clutch on the planet. Measure your stuff, replace if out of spec or clean to remove anything that shouldn't be there. Also make sure the plates aren't warped because if they are, ditch them and replace.

[BA80]

I wouldn't worry too much about the oil's act in your slipping problem,

I have found that oil can be a significant factor if your running one that's not compatible with the older wet clutch.

I used to run 15w40 Rotella in my smaller bikes without a problem but with the torque of the 1100 it slipped. Switched oils to Castol 4T 20w50 MC oil and the slipping stopped. I see from an earlier post that he is running the proper oil though.

The Barnett springs should take care of it. Springs that have been compressed and been through countless heat cycles for 30+ years tend to weaken.