LED and no load flasher question

[ddragon63]

So... I got my no load flasher and led's today. Flasher works great with standard bulbs. I put the led's in and it don't work I put standard bulbs in front and leds in rear ( and vise-versa) and it works but signal bleeds to the other side while flashing (only bleeds to LED's)...

I havent installed my 5 into 4 wire conversion box or new fuse box yet. Just wanted to put in the bulbs and flasher for my ride tomorrow. Now I'm back to my standard 1157's WTF?????? anyone???? HELP!!!!!

[ddragon63]

let me resate that

If i put the led turns in the front and standard in the rear I get full blinker with no bleed over. If i put the led's in the rear and standards in the front i get bleed over in the led's in the rear only. The front led's and rear led's are different as the fronts look like this



and rears look like this



The rears are a 2w large single right hand angle LED...

I can put one standard bulb in rear and LED in other side and it flashes. as soon as i put both LED's in the rear no more flash. hoping when I wire my 5 to 4 converter box and rewire the back end of the bike it fixes itself. if not I'm gonna be pissed that i cant use $30 worth of 2 bulbs

[ddragon63]

my only other thought now that I've sat and thought about it is maybe a crappy ground in the rear. may be good enough for a high load 1157 but not a low load LED?

[natemoen]

I am sure someone else can answer this for sure, but i think on the specials that can be a problem and it has to do something with the way turn signal indicators in the cluster are wired that causes the bleed. Someone fixed it somewhere on here.

[crazy steve]

Nate hit it on the head; the problem is your '79 indicator cluster. You've only got a single turn indicator for both sides (the only year like that) and that's your 'bleed'. Easy fix would be to get a '80-81 cluster (with separate lights), otherwise you need to mod the wiring to the light. As existing, the light has the chocolate and dark green turn wires hooked to it, one to each side of the light. You need to hook both to one side (with a diode installed in each wire to prevent the backfeed) and ground the other side.

[ddragon63]

well I think my first step is to get all the LED's to fire so i can remove the standard bulbs.

second all the wire in the rear has been redone for the trunk. I was going over the wire chart in the book last night and it shows the factor turns as a indicater only with no running lights. the turns in my trunk are running/turning lights.

Soooo sound's like I'm pullling wiring and starting over back there.

Now once I figure out how to get the LED's to talk nice to the flasher We can hit up the other issue. obviously I can't follow the repair manuals wiring diagram like its the word of god seeing as its impossible to tell where the wiring splices start and end for the aftermarket signals on the bike without routing them all the way back to their source.

After my ride today I will dig a little deaper into it and see what I come up with. I'll also be installing my new fuse block and 5 to 4 wire spliter while I'm elbow deep in it.... Wish me luck!

[natemoen]

well I think my first step is to get all the LED's to fire so i can remove the standard bulbs.

second all the wire in the rear has been redone for the trunk. I was going over the wire chart in the book last night and it shows the factor turns as a indicater only with no running lights. the turns in my trunk are running/turning lights.

Soooo sound's like I'm pullling wiring and starting over back there.

Now once I figure out how to get the LED's to talk nice to the flasher We can hit up the other issue. obviously I can't follow the repair manuals wiring diagram like its the word of god seeing as its impossible to tell where the wiring splices start and end for the aftermarket signals on the bike without routing them all the way back to their source.

After my ride today I will dig a little deaper into it and see what I come up with. I'll also be installing my new fuse block and 5 to 4 wire spliter while I'm elbow deep in it.... Wish me luck!

The specials never had running lights from the factory, just turn signals. Adding them in is not a problem though so that is not the root of any of your issues.

[ddragon63]

Nate hit it on the head; the problem is your '79 indicator cluster. You've only got a single turn indicator for both sides (the only year like that) and that's your 'bleed'. Easy fix would be to get a '80-81 cluster (with separate lights), otherwise you need to mod the wiring to the light. As existing, the light has the chocolate and dark green turn wires hooked to it, one to each side of the light. You need to hook both to one side (with a diode installed in each wire to prevent the backfeed) and ground the other side.

Steve,

I'm following you on this. As the LED is such a load resistance where as incandescent bulbs are hi resistance and less likely to back feed. Here is my question thou why does it only back feed the rear? I have the LED's in the front right now and incandescents in the rear and it doesn't back feed the front. but if I reverse that and put LED's in the rear and incandescents in the front it back feeds thru the LED in the rear.

Now here is my other thought. When I do my 5 to 4 wire converter box I will be turning my rear running/turning lights into running/turning/stopping lights. Once I've completed this change and I shouldn't have any back feed as the converter box separates all signals for individual sides.... that's my theory at least.


just a reminder of what the lights I'm dealing with look like...

[ddragon63]

The specials never had running lights from the factory, just turn signals. Adding them in is not a problem though so that is not the root of any of your issues.

Ya i didn't figure as much Nate... I would also assume I could put load resistors in the rear ones to remove this feed back issue and no flash when all 4 LED's are in place. I know its counter productive but if the incandescent 1157's don't bleed in the back if I ad some resistance to the rear LED bulbs they shouldn't bleed either and flash when asked too... the rear bulbs cost $15 each and I'm gonna use em 1 way or the other They're bright as hell too

[crazy steve]

Steve, I'm following you on this. As the LED is such a load resistance where as incandescent bulbs are hi resistance and less likely to back feed. Here is my question though why does it only back feed the rear? I have the LED's in the front right now and incandescents in the rear and it doesn't back feed the front. but if I reverse that and put LED's in the rear and incandescents in the front it back feeds thru the LED in the rear.

Now here is my other thought. When I do my 5 to 4 wire converter box I will be turning my rear running/turning lights into running/turning/stopping lights. Once I've completed this change and I shouldn't have any back feed as the converter box separates all signals for individual sides.... that's my theory at least.

Troubleshooting wiring long-distance can be such a PITA...

First, the LEDs are a high-resistance load; much higher than a incandescent. They're low current (about 1/50 as much), so any lower-resistance points in the circuit (be it a bulb or even a somewhat poor connection) can draw off enough voltage to cause them to not work or work right. Where these points are can make a difference too; if your ground paths aren't the same, that can be the problem. LEDs are even touchier about poor connections compared to regular lamps.

Here's what I'd do; disconnect the indicator light cluster by unplugging it, and also the turn canceller. This reduces the circuit to the turn lights, switch, and flasher. Does everything now work? Also keep in mind that LEDs are polarity-sensitive (unlike incandescents) so make sure your + and - wires are hooked to the correct side of the LED. If the lights now work, the problem is the cluster or canceller. If they still don't work, you'll have to start tracing wires to make sure they go where their supposed to and all connections are good, paying particular attention to the ground wires. Also doublecheck that your flasher will work with a LED load; some 'electronic' flashers need at least a 1 amp load to work, which is more than the LEDs will draw. Once you get them working, then make the mod to the cluster and reconnect it. The canceller you should leave disconnected, as it won't work in any case.

You may have issues with the 'trailer convertor' too. Unless it's marked as being specifically compatible with LED lamps, you may not have enough current load to 'trigger' it's operation. I'd get the turns working right before trying to install this so you're not chasing multiple problems...

[ddragon63]

Troubleshooting wiring long-distance can be such a PITA...

First, the LEDs are a high-resistance load; much higher than a incandescent. They're low current (about 1/50 as much), so any lower-resistance points in the circuit (be it a bulb or even a somewhat poor connection) can draw off enough voltage to cause them to not work or work right. Where these points are can make a difference too; if your ground paths aren't the same, that can be the problem. LEDs are even touchier about poor connections compared to regular lamps.

Here's what I'd do; disconnect the indicator light cluster by unplugging it, and also the turn canceller. This reduces the circuit to the turn lights, switch, and flasher. Does everything now work? Also keep in mind that LEDs are polarity-sensitive (unlike incandescents) so make sure your + and - wires are hooked to the correct side of the LED. If the lights now work, the problem is the cluster or canceller. If they still don't work, you'll have to start tracing wires to make sure they go where their supposed to and all connections are good, paying particular attention to the ground wires. Also doublecheck that your flasher will work with a LED load; some 'electronic' flashers need at least a 1 amp load to work, which is more than the LEDs will draw. Once you get them working, then make the mod to the cluster and reconnect it. The canceller you should leave disconnected, as it won't work in any case.

You may have issues with the 'trailer convertor' too. Unless it's marked as being specifically compatible with LED lamps, you may not have enough current load to 'trigger' it's operation. I'd get the turns working right before trying to install this so you're not chasing multiple problems...

Thanks Steve... ya I plan on fixing 1 issue before causing another

[cywelchjr]

So... I got my no load flasher and led's today. Flasher works great with standard bulbs. I put the led's in and it don't work I put standard bulbs in front and leds in rear ( and vise-versa) and it works but signal bleeds to the other side while flashing (only bleeds to LED's)...

I havent installed my 5 into 4 wire conversion box or new fuse box yet. Just wanted to put in the bulbs and flasher for my ride tomorrow. Now I'm back to my standard 1157's WTF?????? anyone???? HELP!!!!!

Oh, I remember, the SF has a problem converting flashers to LEDs. The indicator is a single for both directions unlike ALL other years and models. What has to be done is setup a pair of diodes to feed the indicator from each side without feeding back to the other, as the small amount of feedback from the other side is enough to light the LEDs while not enough to light regular bulbs. MikesXS used to have a kit for that but they stopped carrying it, so you have to create your own. I think they might talk about what you have to do on the superbrightleds site.