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  • Help with loud thunk and a lurch

    I need help with my XJ1100

    The summer before last, occasionally, when I would shift into second while ridding slightly aggressively, I would get a thunk sound and a slight lurch in the acceleration. Just for a fraction of a second. I wasn't too concerned at the time.

    At the beginning of last Spring, still noticing the occasional lurch I pulled the 750 final drive and put one of my XJ drives in. There was no change, still a very occasional lurch and thump as soon as I would shift into second gear under power.

    My oldest son talked me into letting him have the XJ to ride fore the rest of Spring and the Summer as I was having a lot of knee trouble and was getting a Knee replacement.

    When he brought the bike back in July he told me it had stopped the thunk and lurch after shifting into 2nd. but was now doing it in first and that it was so bad that he had been starting in 2nd. gear and not using first at all. He said the thunk was louder and he was right. When I was able to ride it I discovered that the noise was now very mechanical and metallic sounding and would do the lurch and thunk repeatedly while under even mild acceleration in first, but would not do it in any other gear. The noise was now discernable as coming from the engine and seemingly from the center to the front.

    After looking at the service and parts manual I came to the conclusion maybe it was the primary shaft cam damper.

    Well, I just today split the case and found Absolutely nothing that I could determine as defective, worn or slipping. No chipped, missing or even worn gear teeth. The interior of the engine looked just as good as the day it was made, or at least as good as when I was in it in the winter of 2004 when I re-ringed it and replaced every bearing in the engine and the bike (except the one that's not available) and did the 2nd gear fix.

    The only thing I haven't inspected is the middle gear assembly but it feels good and beside, if the problem was it, I'd have it in all gears.

    Any and all suggestions for a cause will be greatly be appreciated.

    Louis
    "There is no mechanical problem so difficult that it cannot be overcome by
    brute strength and ignorance" And possibly some Mouse Milk!
    '82 XJ1100J
    LED Dir and running lights
    LED Tail/Brake lights (4) one flashing
    Modulated H/L
    PIAA Driving lights
    YICS Eliminated
    750 FD

    Yamaha Factory X-1 Fairing and Luggage

  • #2
    My initial thought was the typical 1st and or 2nd gear issue, though never heard described quite as you have described it. But you say you did the 2nd gear repair, I assume you also fixed first while you were working on it.

    Otherwise, there is not much in the drive train that only effects one gear or two. So I am still left to consider the gears, though you stated they were inspected and good. Only thing that comes to mind right now.
    Life is what happens while your planning everything else!

    When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.

    81 XS1100 Special - Humpty Dumpty
    80 XS1100 Special - Project Resurrection


    Previously owned
    93 GSX600F
    80 XS1100 Special - Ruby
    81 XS1100 Special
    81 CB750 C
    80 CB750 C
    78 XS750

    Comment


    • #3
      If you have it apart now, really should re-grind the dogs and slots......on all gears that have them. Make them a dovetail with some back-cut and grind slots on the load side at an eye-ball matching angle. Several members also do the washer swap for a further engagement of the dogs. I may have been a bit more aggressive with my dove-tail and slot angles, but that was four years ago and I pounded it pretty heavy at the drag strip 3yrs. ago with full throttle clutch speed shifts. Still works fine as it should. Also,severely worn or slightly bent shift forks can attribute to the issue.
      81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah, I did first while I was at it and even switched the washer to the other side of the circlip.

        But, 1st is the problem. To fix it I would have to take more than 0.090" off the dogs on the 4th gear wheel and almost as much off 1st gear wheel just to get them straight, much less undercut. New wheels with shipping is $231.47, ouch!

        My wife just informed me the bike isn't worth that much!

        Louis
        "There is no mechanical problem so difficult that it cannot be overcome by
        brute strength and ignorance" And possibly some Mouse Milk!
        '82 XJ1100J
        LED Dir and running lights
        LED Tail/Brake lights (4) one flashing
        Modulated H/L
        PIAA Driving lights
        YICS Eliminated
        750 FD

        Yamaha Factory X-1 Fairing and Luggage

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey Isipell,

          Your bike IS worth that and more!!!!

          Okay, did you see the photos in the 1st/2nd gear tech tip where I showed grinding off ~1/8" ?! They are overengineered, and you have 6 dogs on 4th to spread the stress across, vs. only 3 for 2nd. As has been stated, you need to REGRIND 1st/4th and go ahead and redress 2nd/5th while you're in there, and be a bit more aggressive with the angle of the undercut.

          An XJ I worked on many years ago had 1st skipping so badly that anything above idle caused it to skip like a machine gun! I had to grind off quite a bit from the 4th gear dogs to get back to a decent square edge that I ensured was then taken to a few degrees undercut.

          Sorry you went thru the hassle/work of actually splitting the cases, but not thinking that it was the countershaft gears led you to the more extreme exploratory surgery! Check your cam chain tensioner and if it's near the end of it's adjustment, might as well to the chain while you have it apart. Also would suggest inspecting your starter clutch pinch rollers and shaft for signs of wear, and replace the pinch rollers/springs if needed.

          T.C.
          T. C. Gresham
          81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
          79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
          History shows again and again,
          How nature points out the folly of men!

          Comment


          • #6
            Louis, sorry to hear that the damper wasn't what you needed. I have a 4H3 engine that's got rusted up cylinders out in the garage. I'll take a look at the gears and let you know how they look. If they are good I'll make you a deal on the entire secondary shaft and you can just swap it all out.

            Lemme know if you interested.
            Greg

            Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

            ― Albert Einstein

            80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

            The list changes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by lsippell View Post
              But, 1st is the problem. To fix it I would have to take more than 0.090" off the dogs on the 4th gear wheel and almost as much off 1st gear wheel just to get them straight, much less undercut. New wheels with shipping is $231.47, ouch!

              My wife just informed me the bike isn't worth that much!

              Louis
              Where did you price the gear wheels? I know they've gone up as I bought all four for about $100. I usually get the lowest price at Yamaha Sports Center. Under "Shopping" go to "Parts Finder", scroll to the bottom to "reverse parts search", after you select "Yamaha". Good luck!
              Marty (in Mississippi)
              XS1100SG
              XS650SK
              XS650SH
              XS650G
              XS6502F
              XS650E

              Comment


              • #8
                If you chose to again re-grind the gears U got, clamp that gear verical in a bench vise, hold dremal at a somewhat braced angle grinding that same angleover the top of the dog back and forth till the grind angle and marks reach to the outward end of dog.....quit right there. Rotate in vise and repeat till all dogs are done. They WILL be very close to the same, unlees you have the capability to index each the same, which could be done but IMO is a bit anal considering the loose tolerances anyway. Then take the gears with the slots, clamp in vise, using muscle memory(remember U just did some nine dogs) hold at approx. same angle and back-grind out the load side of each slot. Not hard, just a bit time consuming and it helps to have a diamond stone in the Dremel that is close to same diamater as the slots are. Hold that same approx. angle that was held on the dogs and grind till that cut touches the other edge of the thickness of the slot. Now indexing those cuts to be identical so equal pressure is on all the dogs I don't see as being that necessary. must not as Ive hammered the p**s out of mine early on afer fixing. Don't normally abuse the bike that way, but good test to know if I chose to get rough with it with full throttle clutch speed shifts. Other option......work a deal with Greg(BA80).
                81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                Comment

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