NGK plug caps?

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

I replaced the outside plug caps with the 5k ohms from Mikes, Where can I get the taller inside NGK for the inside, and could my idle miss promlem be from the 5k ones i got thought they were aplug and play

[cywelchjr]

They should be plug and play. I got mine from cyclegear. They carry a good assortment of them in different styles and even colors so you can color match them to your wires. Some will say that if you run resistor caps to make sure you use non-resistor plugs, to which I'm not quite sure. But if in doubt, your certainly safer to follow that rule.

[bikerphil]

Caps, use 5 ohm with non-resistor plugs... should be XB05F

http://www.parkeryamaha.com/search.aspx?find=ngk+spark+plug+caps

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5954

I reccomend using 3 ohm coils, they seem to cure lower end stumble in some cases.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

OK, what caps should I buy, outside short shaft and long shaft inside to use the standered NGK spark pluge I bought the Mikes Part #23-3113 outside shaft caps because they said for all electronic ing

http://www.mikesxs.net/products-27.html#products

Caps, use 5 ohm with non-resistor plugs... should be XB05F

http://www.parkeryamaha.com/search.aspx?find=ngk+spark+plug+caps

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5954

I reccomend using 3 ohm coils, they seem to cure lower end stumble in some cases.

[bikerphil]

LB05F is the short 90º outer cap
XB05F is the long inner 102º cap

These are both for NGK BP6ES (non resistor) spark plugs with the removable terminal cap.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey OEM,

We've had this discussion before regarding resistor vs. non-resistor plugs and caps. I've got the hi output 3 ohm Dyna Coils, and use the non-resistor caps with non-resistor plugs. IF I can't find/get the non-resistor plugs, then I know I can us the resistor plugs as well. Folks say the non-non combo creates lots of RF interference, but I've not noticed it with the MP3 player I occasionally listen to when riding LDR's. Our ignition boxes are not sensitive to this RF either, so I use the non-non to get plenty of fire power to the plugs.

If you are using the OEM coils, they are 30 years old, and generally weak in their output to begin with ...only 15 KV, and then using resistor caps and plugs puts a higher stress on the ability for the spark to jump the gap. And then with a possibly lowering of system voltage..ie, idling, the less voltage getting to the ignition coils creates a weaker spark, has even more trouble jumping the resistor cap/plug gaps, which can give a low speed miss.

Several folks have reported that they did all sorts of tuning processes trying to get rid of a low speed miss, carbs, etc., all to no avail, UNTIL they put on the newer 3 ohm coils, and viola...their miss went away! YMMV.

T.C.

I thought you had some race car experience, not wanting to seem like talking down or anything, I'm just a shadetree survivalist, just trying to provide other proof regarding my ideas/opinions on the use of the non-non combo.

I understand the info the Nology folks say at the end with the resistor actually increasing the spark voltage..similar to increasing the plug gap, but still think resistance on an old already weak spark system/coil really doesn't help!
Info from NGK website:

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: When should I use a resistor spark plug?

A: NGK "R" or resistor spark plugs use a 5k ohm ceramic resistor in the spark plug to suppress ignition noise generated during sparking.

NGK strongly recommends using resistor spark plugs in any vehicle that uses on-board computer systems to monitor or control engine performance. This is because resistor spark plugs reduce electromagnetic interference with on-board electronics.

They are also recommended on any vehicle that has other on-board electronic systems such as engine-management computers, two-way radios, GPS systems, depth finders or whenever recommended by the manufacturer.

In fact, using a non-resistor plug in certain applications can actually cause the engine to suffer undesirable side effects such as an erratic idle, high-rpm misfire, engine run-on, power drop off at certain rpm levels and abnormal combustion.

------------------------------------------
From Sparkplugs.com

At the moment the spark jumps the gap it causes a high frequency burst of energy, this is known as RFI (radio frequency interference). This is why resistor spark plugs were introduces in the mid 1960's. Placing a resistor within the spark plug suppresses the RFI. Without resistor plugs in your car you can experience static on your radio as well as interference with other sensitive electronic equipment. Some later model vehicles as well as newer Powersport engines must use resistor plugs for a proper "talkback" to the electronic ignition.

Outboard marine Capacitive Discharge Ignition systems (CDI) such as used on some Johnson and Evinrude marine engines require a special inductive type resistor spark plug (such as a Champion Q-type or NGK Z-type). This is because these type of ignitions systems produces less voltage; use of non-inductive type plugs can cause misfires and poor performance.

---------------------------------------------
And a few comments from the NOLOGY plug site...take them with a grain of salt.
Question:
Why do I need resistor plugs?

Answer:
You don't always need to use resistor spark plugs. True, some electronic engine management systems are very sensitive to RFI or EMI and if non-resistor spark plugs are used the engine doesn't work properly. However, most engines will not experience any problems with non-resistor spark plugs, especially if there is some resistance in the spark plug cap or the wires.

Question:
So non-resistor spark plugs are better for performance?

Answer:
Yes. If you are looking for performance you want to use non-resistor spark plugs. A resistor is exactly what the word implies. When the spark crosses the point of resistance some of the spark energy is lost. A resistor is like an electronic obstacle and could be the cause for a weak spark. Non-resistor spark plugs deliver a more powerful spark.

Question:
Why do car manufacturers recommend resistor spark plugs?

Answer:
One reasons is actually emissions. Since the resistor is an obstacle it forces the spark voltage to be higher, assuring combustion in a lean mixture. Also resistor plugs are MUCH cheaper to produce. You will never find resistor plugs in serious race cars, yet these cars use some of the most sophisticated engine management and data acquisition systems. But these cars have no EMI problems. Why? The spark happens inside the combustion chamber where he is completely shielded by the metal cylinder head. No EMI can escape the combustion chamber.

[fredintoon]

- - - Also resistor plugs are MUCH cheaper to produce. - - -

Hi TC,
so that's why resistor plugs are the only ones that Canadian Tire sells?
But I fooled them.
Right next to the sparkplug rack is the snowmobile parts rack where they stock zero resistance plug caps!

[TopCatGr58]

Here's some additional info, a nice FAQ by NGK, the web site link:

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/index.asp?mode=nml

A quote from the above, note the last line:

Misfires

A misfire occurs when the spark travels the path of least resistance instead of jumping across the gap. Misfires can be caused by the following:


Carbon fouling
Worn or deteriorated ignition system components
Too large of gap size
Spark timing excessively advanced or retarded
Damaged spark plugs (cracked insulator, melted electrodes, etc)
Mismatched ignition system components (plug resistance / wire resistance, ignition coils / igniter modules, etc.)
Insufficient coil primary and/or secondary voltage – voltage required to jump the spark plug gap higher than coil output

T.C.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Thanks again all

TC, I "Had" some racing experance in my youth, back then we ran solid core wires, Blue point, Accel and such ingnition etc, We were redlining a 8500 rpm so it worked for the track in those days, never worried about radio static. It was my understanding the resistance increases spark voltage to a point, that point is the limit of the system / coils. I believe you are right, my 30 year old coils limit isen't what she used to be. I will run a check and compair to the book, probly won't like what I find, new coils in my future Trying not to spend more $$$ right now, but it is what is is 30+ year old coils, wires and resister = gremlins I am still running the stock resistor under the tank, will test it also Thanks to all

[crazy steve]

Nology is selling some snake oil.....

When the spark crosses the point of resistance some of the spark energy is lost

But then they turn around and say this...

Since the resistance is an obstacle it forces the spark voltage to be higher, assuring combustion in a lean mixture

Or this one....

The spark happens in the combustion chamber where it is completely shielded by the metal cylinder head

Any RF interference is generated external to the combustion chamber; it's generally caused by leakage through insulation, sparking at the various HV connections, or electrical fields generated around the various ungrounded parts. Cover these bits with a grounded sheild, and the problem will disappear. Those of us old enough to remember can recall many 50s cars having metal covers over the wires/spark plugs (early Hemis, Buicks come to mind), and the Corvette used covers well into the 80s at least if not further because of it's fiberglass body. Grain of salt indeed....

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Thanks Phill, just ordered those XB05F's on Ebay, got two for $7.00 including S/H. The add you sent said to use with resistor plugs I am useing NGK BP-6ES, should I change plugs Thanks

Caps, use 5 ohm with non-resistor plugs... should be XB05F

http://www.parkeryamaha.com/search.aspx?find=ngk+spark+plug+caps

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5954

I reccomend using 3 ohm coils, they seem to cure lower end stumble in some cases.

[bikerphil]

Thanks Phill, just ordered those XB05F's on Ebay, got two for $7.00 including S/H. The add you sent said to use with resistor plugs I am useing NGK BP-6ES, should I change plugs Thanks

NGK BP6ES (7333) are non resistor and the caps you ordered are 5KΩ so you are good, just like from the factory.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Thanks again Phil

You the Man, hope you have a Merry Christmas, you have always been a big help to me God Bless

NGK BP6ES (7333) are non resistor and the caps you ordered are 5KΩ so you are good, just like from the factory.

[CatatonicBug]

I put irridium plugs on mine (they only come in resistor style) and have non-resistor H-D plug boots on the wires. My neighbor had just taken them off his new Hardley and swapped them for something else, so he just gave them to me. Of course, they have the HD logo on them, but they're small enough that no one will notice.