Performance build - feedback for ideas please

[sullyLang]

I have a 1980 xs11sg that I bought with a shattered primary chain (cam chain guide broke off and jammed it). The rest of the bike was in good shape and whole. This is a project for fun. I'm looking at doing the following changes on reassembly. Anyone with experiance of advice would be appreciated:
Wiseco 1179cc upgrade piston kit.
Porting the exhaust
polishing the heads
installing performance street cam
Changing to pod style air filters
Having the carbs professionally cleaned, stage 3 jetting, and bench tuned.
(A $350.00 service offered on e-bay)

I'd like to avoid pitfalls if possible.
Thank you

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Hi again

OK, I am guessing you want to make it faster No mention of what exaust you plan on useing, if stock, I wouldn't re-jet, and I wouldn't spend $350.00 on a carb rebuild either, you can go throught these carbs with a "step by step" guild on here and save $$$ and get just as good of results IMHO If you are going to change the exaust you "can" gain some top end preformance and noise But, you will never get a better full range of opperation then the stock exaust IMHO That is why they still bring $500.00 used on Ebay Porting and polishing is a waste of time as the castings are nice from the factory for the street IMHO (and I have ported and polished and CC'd race heads before for the qtr mile track) I would put my cash and time into makeing sure that the bottem end is tight and the new pistons and cyl job you are planning will add some HP (not enough IMHO to justify the cost, a good hone job with new rings will work fine. Please remember, these bikes are not FZR's and such, with down draft carbs and 12 thousand rev limits, they make good HP and torq but without big$$$$, they are what they are, good pull almost all of the useable RPM and look cool

I have a 1980 xs11sg that I bought with a shattered primary chain (cam chain guide broke off and jammed it). The rest of the bike was in good shape and whole. This is a project for fun. I'm looking at doing the following changes on reassembly. Anyone with experiance of advice would be appreciated:
Wiseco 1179cc upgrade piston kit.
Porting the exhaust
polishing the heads
installing performance street cam
Changing to pod style air filters
Having the carbs professionally cleaned, stage 3 jetting, and bench tuned.
(A $350.00 service offered on e-bay)

I'd like to avoid pitfalls if possible.
Thank you

[cywelchjr]

Well, unless you find someone that knows what their doing with THESE engines, most likely the porting and polishing the heads will ruin them and destroy the performance.

Additionally, I'd recommend staying away from the ebay carb builders AND the stage 3 kits, cause even the wiseco kit is not hopped up enough for the stage 3 kit, the stage 1 is plenty if you get them jetted right, and they can ONLY be tuned on the bike, there is NO SUCH THING as bench tuned carbs, not that work right. Everyone I've seen on here that's had carbs done by an ebay rebuilder has ended up having to redo them themselves anyways, cause the guys on ebay don't know these bikes and don't have one to put the carbs on to tune them to, and you can't tune these carbs on a bench, they GOTTA be on a bike to tune them. IMHO if you pay some guy on ebay to clean and tune your carbs, you will have thrown your money away and you will have to turn around and do all the work anyways, they will look pretty, but there will almost always be inner passages that won't be clean and they won't be tuned right, wrong jets etc. Just study and do the work yourself.

There used to be a guy on here who did carbs, but he actually put them on and XS11 to do the final tuning, so they were actually somewhat close, and even then, they STILL have to be tuned to YOUR bike when you put them on.

[sullyLang]

Carbs and pistons

I was suspect of the carb rebuild on e-bay however I wondered if they could do a better job with the sonic cleaning then me with a disassembly and rebuild. Follow my gut there and stay at home with the carbs.

The #2 cylinder has a fairly deep score down one side. It's easier to find a complete Wiseco piston kit than piece together 1st or 2nd OS sets of pistons, rings, pins and circlips. A bit more expensive though. The money is gonna be spent on machining and parts either way. (this is a labor of love)

Thanks!

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Cool

Thats Cool, It is your money, spend it like you want too You can get a good set of jugs and stock pistons (a whole doner motor for that matter) for a few bucks You could just bolt on and be set (after a honeing job and useing the best of the rings to make a good complet set) But sometimes, getting new shinny stuff makes you smile I get it, have fun

I was suspect of the carb rebuild on e-bay however I wondered if they could do a better job with the sonic cleaning then me with a disassembly and rebuild. Follow my gut there and stay at home with the carbs.

The #2 cylinder has a fairly deep score down one side. It's easier to find a complete Wiseco piston kit than piece together 1st or 2nd OS sets of pistons, rings, pins and circlips. A bit more expensive though. The money is gonna be spent on machining and parts either way. (this is a labor of love)

Thanks!

[crazy steve]

If you're looking for more power, search for and read posts by Dan Hodges; he spent a ton of money and time exploring the XS motor. He looked for the limits, and found that it took cubic money to get much more than 100RWHP out of one of these....

The condensed version is don't get carried away; the best-bang-for-your-buck would be the stock head (port matching is ok, but don't alter the runner shape), use the '78-79 cams and the '78 ignition bits. Reground cams can offer some power up high but at the expense of your low end. One problem will be finding a 'good' performance exhaust, as all but the Campbell X-pipe are out of prodution.

As a 'package', Yamaha did an excellent job with the tune on these, and it's really difficult to gain much...

If your heart is set on a VMax killer, look for a turbo or nitrous set-up...

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

V Max Killer

From what I understand, the stock 78XS1100 (and others) is faster in the qtr mile then all but the 1985 V Max, after that the de-tunning that Yamaha did made all the other V Max's turn in the 12 sec range

If you're looking for more power, search for and read posts by Dan Hodges; he spent a ton of money and time exploring the XS motor. He looked for the limits, and found that it took cubic money to get much more than 100RWHP out of one of these....

The condensed version is don't get carried away; the best-bang-for-your-buck would be the stock head (port matching is ok, but don't alter the runner shape), use the '78-79 cams and the '78 ignition bits. Reground cams can offer some power up high but at the expense of your low end. One problem will be finding a 'good' performance exhaust, as all but the Campbell X-pipe are out of prodution.

As a 'package', Yamaha did an excellent job with the tune on these, and it's really difficult to gain much...

If your heart is set on a VMax killer, look for a turbo or nitrous set-up...

[DiverRay]

If you are spending on bigger pistons, just GO BIG! get the 1192 kit, as it's the same money, or LESS, than the 1176. The cost to bore and hone is the same, so you should be slightly ahead.
The STOCK exhaust system is the best for the street, and if you have one in good condition you can just drill four holes in the muffler, and get a little more WITHOUT killing the power band.
Carbs you can and SHOULD do yourself. georgefix on ebay has the kits, and will give you the jets you need as well for just a few extra dollars. I've been buying things from him for a few years now, and he has ALWAYS been fair. Buy a good set of vacuum gauges, and you can tune the engine on your own.
If you look at my signature, you can see I have a '78 that I'm working on. There is one member here who has some hand written notes from the late 70's, and they show what needs to be done with the cases to get an extra 5 HP! I DO plan on trying to find these, and I will share when I get them.

[Geezer]

Getting a few more ponies is easy, getting a lot more can cost a fortune. Uncork the exhaust, open up the air box a little and jet accordingly and you can add 5+ HP to the top end. You'll loose a little on the bottom end but I don't think it'll be enough to notice.

The first thing I've done to every XS11 that I've had is to loose the snorkel on the air box. K&N air filters don't add the power K&N says they do and don't filter as well as oiled foam or the OEM paper filters. Little things like hotter ignition and matching up the intake boots to ports will help but not as much.

These days with the availability or really lack of availability of replacement pistons and rings, A big bore kit is the best way to go. I like a smooth running engine so I recommend the smaller of the 2 big bore kits available. The XS11 engine isn't balanced for the heavier pistons and larger kit can really turn it into a shaker... I also think the larger kit leaves the cylinder sleeves too thin...

On the other hand if you really want more power, buy an FJ1100...

I like the XS11 for what it is and while a few improvements are great, I can't see making into a different bike... That's my story and I'm sticking too it.

Geezer

[sullyLang]

Things to think about

The feedback has been very helpful. I'm not looking to put this beauty on the track, and not interested in ruining the charactor of the machine. I see no one has mentioned the performance cam. I can only find one at about $500 and most of the other upgrades go out the window (exc pistons) without this piece of the puzzle (I love the sound of a well cam'd engine). I guess another issue I'm facing is setting valve clearances. Where does someone find the tappet discs needed to adjust the valves before installing the head?

I'm not sure what exhaust came with the bike as it has no moniker. A 4 into one with unfinished pipes leaving the heads leading to a chromed muffler. The baffle is small holes (3/16"?) around circumference and 4 larger holes (3/8"?) in the center of a plate inside the muffler. No other marks available.

An ignition upgrade from Mikes XS or Dyna seems like a good plan as well.

[crazy steve]

I see no one has mentioned the performance cam. I can only find one at about $500 and most of the other upgrades go out the window (exc pistons) without this piece of the puzzle (I love the sound of a well cam'd engine)..

That's why you want the '78-79 cams, as they're considerably hotter than the later cams; about 30 degrees more duration. And to get the most out of these cams, use the '78 mechanical/vacuum advance bits. The '78 bikes were nearly .4 second quicker in the 1/4 mile over the '79s, and over a 1/2 second quicker compared to the '80-81 models. Nearly the same power as a regrind, without the hassle of setup/cost or the added stress on the valve train.

Dan Hodges searched for and failed to find a 'magic bullet' that offered a big increase. What he found was most changes offered small incremental increases, and once you got past the 'easy' changes, the costs started to go up sharply with diminishing returns while the bike's 'street manners' went away. I hate to think about what he spent on dyno time...

Speed equipment for these bikes was never common, and is nearly non-existent now other than the big-bore kits.

As to finding cam shims, they're not hard to get; most metric dealers will have them. Check the service dept, not parts; these 29mm shims fit a lot of bikes, notably the KZ1000 and most will offer used shims for sale/exchange. The used shims will be fine... You can still get new, but you'll probably have to order them. There's online vendors too.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Bikess

From the look of the list of bikes you have or had, you know something about different kinds / sizes What I have found with the XS1100 is Yamaha did a good job of milking most all the pony's out of the tech. of the day. You can get the first couple of ponys free (ie, tune up, clean plugs, carbs & adj. set timming,etc. Then you can get a couple more cheap, better coils, drilling holes in antique ventage OEM parts (air box, stock exaust) and pitting in newer tech air filters. Then you can get a few more ponys for many $$$$, new custom cams, pistons, exaust systems and so on, but then you are spending hunders per pony I think the best mony spent on one of these is make it as safe a posably, ie brakes, tires and that kind of stuff. Next, make it run like "NEW" or a little better, cheap. Then, make it look like new You will be pretty happy with the pull, OK with the stop, (take one of your other bikes if you are going cafe racing) and you can live with the handeling, but the part you will like the most is the looks and complaments from Old Timmers like me

The feedback has been very helpful. I'm not looking to put this beauty on the track, and not interested in ruining the charactor of the machine. I see no one has mentioned the performance cam. I can only find one at about $500 and most of the other upgrades go out the window (exc pistons) without this piece of the puzzle (I love the sound of a well cam'd engine). I guess another issue I'm facing is setting valve clearances. Where does someone find the tappet discs needed to adjust the valves before installing the head?

I'm not sure what exhaust came with the bike as it has no moniker. A 4 into one with unfinished pipes leaving the heads leading to a chromed muffler. The baffle is small holes (3/16"?) around circumference and 4 larger holes (3/8"?) in the center of a plate inside the muffler. No other marks available.

An ignition upgrade from Mikes XS or Dyna seems like a good plan as well.

[crazy steve]

I can tell this is a Harley guy (even if he didn't list his current bikes) as in that world, out-of-the-box solutions are commonplace. Tell the vendor your combo, and you'll get a pre-tuned piece that will need little adjustment (if any) and there's no pesky carb syncing either...

And being a HD owner, I also know how much they leave on the table when the bike leaves the factory. That's not the case with these bikes; the XS is pretty close to maximum potential as-delivered (at least in terms of streetability), with very little low-hanging fruit available. Unless you do a power-adder (blower/turbo/nitrous), it's not cheap or easy to see significant gains....

[TopCatGr58]

Well, with that history of machines, an 80 Yamaha Triple along with the many HD's, I don't think he would mind a little extra vibration compared to pure stock 1100cc's! I rode mine for 9 years stock, then did the smaller 1179cc big bore, and it's still quite smooth. I also had an 850 Yam triple, and I liked the low rpm vibration...made me feel like I was actually on a motorcycle, but once you got into the rpms it smoothed out nicely also, I think you'll find the same with the 1196 kit as well as the 1179 kit.

The more CC's helps make up for the otherwise loss of low rpm power due to the use of a 4-1 pipe, which he already has... could be a MAC...they had black into chrome muffler, a photo or two would help "US" identify it better. The 4-1's move the power band a bit higher in the rpm range, I'm running one on mine.

As stated, stronger Dyna coils is a must for lighting as much fire over the pistons that you can. See also info about not just using PODS, but possibly mounting them on modest velocity stack type mounts similar to the OEM Air box design...if you want to use Pods vs. the OEM airbox drilled and such.

And as has also been suggested get the right handling parts as well, brakes, shocks, fork brace, etc. and you'll have plenty of fun machine to play with!

[Eveready1100]

I reckon this bike's the ducks nuts for grunt, plus it's still a tractable very rideable machine. It's had a lot of work done to it, but nothing too outrageous or over the top

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6wr-VJZZHY