Another Auto Cancel Flasher Question

[GLoweVA]

Alright, I've exhausted myself reading everything I can on the flasher self canceling and I'm trying to figure out why mine aren't canceling.
History: As long as I've had my bike (7yrs now) My flashers have never canceled by themselves.
I've had the handlebar switch apart a few times and I know that the cancel tines don't touch unless the switch is moved left or right.
So, here's what I'm going to check:
1. I'll check to make sure I still have the OEM flasher. (I think I do)
2. I'll lift the front wheel off the ground and spin it and check for on/off pulses on the white/green wire to the cancel unit. (this checks the reed switch in the speedo)
3. If that's good, with the flashers flashing, I'll apply a +12V to the Yel/Grn plug on the flasher relay and see if they turn off. (applies a false cancel signal)
4. If that all works, I'll spin the front tire and check the Yel/Grn wire going to the flasher to see if the +12volts appears after spinning the front (approx. 1/4 mile)
5. I'll check the yel/red switch cancel wire for grounds. (with switch in the middle there should be no ground, if there was, it would 'reset' the cancel unit)

Am I missing anything?
I've read that the bulb wattage affects the flasher relay. My flasher flashes just fine.
I'm running regular 27W bulbs, but with the fairing on the front, the connections to the front signals are a little weak, but still flash.
Does the Canceling Unit care about the bulb load? (I thought it was just the flasher relay that cared.)

Cy's Mod for the flasher would be great, except it requires that the canceling unit is still functioning. I don't know if mine works or not.

Then again, I'm still running the stock fuse box and that could cause enough voltage drop that the cancel signal isn't strong enough to actually cancel the flasher. (Cy had this problem early in his mod tryouts)
I guess I've got to put in TC's fuse box first.

You know, just typing this all out helps me figure out my issues, thanks for 'listening' to my ramblings.

[crazy steve]

One thing I've never seen mentioned when troubleshooting the turns is the fact that there's a connection between the 'C' terminal and the metal shell of the flasher. A poor connection here can cause issues; it's possible to fix by opening up the flasher and cleaning this joint. Re-insulate the outer shell after repairs to prevent the flasher from shorting to ground.

The stock flasher isn't a bimetal type, but is rather a solenoid type with a 'push-pull' operation....

[cywelchjr]

I'll mention that you won't get 12v on the yellow/green, but rather if it's working around 5v with the flasher load on it. 12v is applied but the load and circuit pulls it down to around 5. I've seen the auto cancel unit go bad, but the reed switch is a common failure item, and if it fails, then the system doesn't work. Mine doesn't like cold, so when cold I get no pulses and hence, no auto cancel. I need to get a nice new reed switch and replace it, I just need the time to do it, and when the temps warm up a little it works just fine which is also when it's convenient to work on it.

All the rest of it's right. Another place that's a problem is a ground on the enable line for the auto cancel unit somewhere else. An easy check for that is to turn on the signals, and then turn off the bike with the signals on. Then turn the ignition on, if the signals come on, then either the auto cancel unit is fubar, or there is a constant low on the trigger line of the auto cancel unit, meaning that line has a short on it somewhere. The line having a short on it somewhere has the same affect as those fingers being in too far and being in contact all the time.

[bikerphil]

An easy check for that is to turn on the signals, and then turn off the bike with the signals on. Then turn the ignition on, if the signals come on, then either the auto cancel unit is fubar, or there is a constant low on the trigger line of the auto cancel unit, meaning that line has a short on it somewhere.

That's a good test, since the bike is not moving it takes the reed switch out of the equation.

[GLoweVA]

Okay, I'm an Idiot!

So, I pull the side cover off to start the TC Fuse box swap out and, Look At That! That flasher looks a little small compared to the one on my project bike.
AH HA! I don't have an OEM flasher on the 'G'!
So I put in the OEM flasher that was on the SG in there and VIOLA! the flashers blink and after I turn the key off, then back on, they stay off!
So, all I've got to do now it run it down the highway and see if they turn themselves off. (reed switch) I didn't feel like lifting the front off the ground and spinning the tire.
With DST and all, it's getting dark real quick around here.
So, I didn't have enough daylight to do anymore.
I suppose I would have had more time, but I had to cut the grass and wouldn't you know it, my lawnmower totally Broke today. Threw a piston or something. Side of the engine broke apart and I saw the inside. So, I had to finish the lawn with the weedwacker. At least I won't need a new mower until spring.
Is 11 years good for a mower? (I only changed the oil in it once!)

[bikerphil]

Yep, common thing, people replace the original with the smaller one to make up for dirty connections and make them blink. Hope it works for you.

[Barnfresh]

Good Fix

I took a rider safety course last week and they talked about self cancel... If it's flashing at the wrong time someone may think you're turning and they may get an XS11 embedded in the side of their Buick. You sure don't want to send the wrong signals out there...

[cywelchjr]

There are of course two types of self cancel. One is the type where the signals cancel themselves, the other is where you press the lever in after the turn is complete. Either one works, but it IS nice to have the auto cancel system working. What's nice about the auto cancel mod, it even works with the OEM flasher .

[bikerphil]

I rode behind a buddy thru mountain roads once and his signal was on for 22 miles straight, lol. No auto cancel on his Triumph.

[GLoweVA]

It works ! (sort of)

Okay so on the ride to work this morning, the blinkers cancelled themselves after traveling a short distance.
Now I've got to figure out why it's so dang hard to get them to turn on.
With a fair amount of certainty, I think my problem lies in the handlebar switch.
Sometimes when I push the lever over they turn on, sometimes not.
So, If I understand the wiring, my problem is that the canceling unit isn't seeing the 'ground reset' (yel/red wire) and thereby not taking the Yel/Grn ("C") terminal on the Flasher to 0 volts and thus turning the flasher on and start to flash.

Because the system DOES work like it should, (albeit sometimes) I know that the cancelling unit and the flasher are doing their respective jobs correctly.
Add to that, the fact that I've taken apart my turn signal switch too many times in the last month, then that's where my problem is.
So, I'll go in there once again, but this time, I'll focus on the the 2 leaves and the selector bar that's on top that is supposed to touch those leaves on a Left or Right move of the switch. (which grounds out the cancelling unit and thus allows it do its thing)

[3Phase]

Take the self-cancel module out of the circuit to test the signals

George, just disconnect the self-cancel module so the signals will work like regular signals with no self-cancel.

Any problems with the signals after eliminating the self-cancel module put it down to cruddy connections at the harness/switch connector on the left-hand side of the frame under the gas tank, a 'bad' flasher, or an over-tweaked handlebar switch.

If the turn indicator light comes on but doesn't flash then look to see if both the front and rear signal lights are on. Check the ground/socket/bulb if one isn't working or if one light looks brighter than the other.

[GLoweVA]

Thanks 3phase, but they worked just fine before I messed with the handlebar switch a few weeks ago. (see my other posts about my soldering issues I had with that switch)
Granted back then, I also had the non-OEM flasher in there also.
So, after my difficult soldering job, the switch is now having difficulties turning to the right. I think I might have a bad connection in there somewhere, but I'm reluctant to pull that switch completely apart again for fear of another solder joint breaking.
The funny thing was, after 6 hrs of messing with that thing, I look over at my project and realize, that I should have just swapped out switch assemblies.
I guess I got single minded focus on that particular job/task.

So, when I do get them to turn on (jiggling the switch around with my thumb)
They work just fine and turn off when they're supposed to.
So, the Canceling unit and the flasher work okay. It's just difficult to get them to come on with the switch acting up like it is.

I hope this better explains my situation.
I think soon, I'm gonna try Cy's 2 relay flasher mod on one of my bikes. (I've only got the one OEM flasher and right now, only one running bike) (I'll probably do it on the G because of the fairing lights/headlight loads and may switch to LEDs/HID)

[cywelchjr]

Thanks 3phase, but they worked just fine before I messed with the handlebar switch a few weeks ago. (see my other posts about my soldering issues I had with that switch)
Granted back then, I also had the non-OEM flasher in there also.
So, after my difficult soldering job, the switch is now having difficulties turning to the right. I think I might have a bad connection in there somewhere, but I'm reluctant to pull that switch completely apart again for fear of another solder joint breaking.
The funny thing was, after 6 hrs of messing with that thing, I look over at my project and realize, that I should have just swapped out switch assemblies.
I guess I got single minded focus on that particular job/task.

So, when I do get them to turn on (jiggling the switch around with my thumb)
They work just fine and turn off when they're supposed to.
So, the Canceling unit and the flasher work okay. It's just difficult to get them to come on with the switch acting up like it is.

I hope this better explains my situation.
I think soon, I'm gonna try Cy's 2 relay flasher mod on one of my bikes. (I've only got the one OEM flasher and right now, only one running bike) (I'll probably do it on the G because of the fairing lights/headlight loads and may switch to LEDs/HID)

That could just be the fingers at the top. 3phase's suggestion of disconnecting the auto cancel unit will tell you if that's the case, because if so, they will work properly but not auto cancel. If so, it's just a matter of cleaning and adjusting those fingers, which only means opening the top of the switch and bending those in a bit and making sure they make good contact. That is actually what it sounds like is going on, as it sounds like the auto cancel unit is not getting the trigger signal from the switch in that direction, it should be an easy fix.

[3Phase]

It could be that #$%& Yamaha switch mechanism is sticking and needs some grease.

For some reason Yamaha made a turn signal switch that doesn't work. It will lock the switch lever so the lever won't move or it will stop just before it's moved far enough to actually turn on the signal. To clear the lock you have to push the lever straight in to center the switch and the lock mechanism and then start over. Sometimes the lever won't go 'over the center' from right to left or left to right without jamming, which is always a lot of fun.

I guess all of that rigmarole is designed to prevent any stray flying pigs from accidentally turning on the turn signals when they swoop down and grab the handlebars. Yamaha also designed the signals so that the very first thing the indicator lights do when you hit the switch is stay off. Brilliant!

[GLoweVA]

Fixed !

That could just be the fingers at the top. 3phase's suggestion of disconnecting the auto cancel unit will tell you if that's the case, because if so, they will work properly but not auto cancel. If so, it's just a matter of cleaning and adjusting those fingers, which only means opening the top of the switch and bending those in a bit and making sure they make good contact. That is actually what it sounds like is going on, as it sounds like the auto cancel unit is not getting the trigger signal from the switch in that direction, it should be an easy fix.

Cy, hit it right on the head! I got in there today and cleaned up all the rusty parts in there and bent the tangs over a little and BAM!
Works like a champ.

So, it looks like I'll do the mod on the SG when I get around to getting her running. Right now I've got the 2 prong (old flasher) in the SG and it works fine there, so at least I'll have signals on her. (at least in manual ie. no auto cancel until I do the Mod.)

Thanks to all you guys for your input and ideas. I do love these bikes.
I might just have to build a garage so I have somewhere to work on them.