XJ11 Clutch issues

[KA1J]

I had hoped to not have to do the clutch but it seems like that may be what's needed. Now that I have the engine running properly I'd discovered what seemed to be a power curve oddity around 7K RPM & up where the engine would rapidly speed up & it was during the pull from the power band. I tend to shift below that so it wasn't an issue to me but I knew it would happen if I were under WOT in that range. I finally decided it was the clutch beginning to slip.

Since I put 2,500 miles on it after doing the ring job I figured it was past break-in and put Amsol for wet clutch bikes in the engine and within a hundred or so miles of operation the clutch now slips around 6K RPM under WOT. Other than that it doesn't slip so I don't have to deal with it immediately and can put that on the to do list before spring.

The thumbwheel adj by the clutch grip is set to give about 1/2" of pull at the end of the grip before it begins to find resistance. Pulling the grip in very little is enough to engage the gears without effort. When the bike is idling, in 1st gear and I have the grip in all the way, it is difficult to bring the bike backward, it's like there is a slight bit of engage to the clutch even when it's not bearing down on the plates & it's always been like that.

So with this, I'm wondering what my best option to do is; is there an internal adjustment that might help? Is it likely the only issue is the springs are weak after 30 years & new springs should fix the issue? Where can I find the best price on whatever parts are needed?

Idears?

[3Phase]

Yes, there is an internal adjustment!

First, loosen the cable adjuster at clutch lever so there is plenty of play in the clutch lever and cable.

On the right-hand side of the engine where the clutch cable goes there is a round metal plate with two large screws. Underneath that cover there is an adjusting screw with a lock nut.

Loosen the lock nut and turn the adjusting screw counter-clockwise to make sure it's free and not already engaging the clutch.

Slowly turn the adjusting screw clockwise until you feel it make light contact. Back out the screw counter-clockwise 1/8 to 1/4 turn and tighten the locknut without allowing the screw to move.

Reset the cable adjuster at the clutch lever and check to see if the clutch works.

Put the side cover back on, then go for a ride and see if the clutch works.

[BA80]

A new set of these http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/...=13&Search.y=9 will make it seem like a new bike also.

[motoman]

The clutch throw-out should be adjusted prior to adjustment at the bars. Back the adjustment at the lever loose, remove the inspection cover on the right side where cable enters case. Loosen the lock nut and rotate adjuster screw in till it lightly touches pressure plate. Back the screw out a quarter turn and while holding in place tighten lock nut. Then go back up top and adjust the cable freeplay. Don't want any tension on the cable and just enough freeplay there isn't any tension on pivot arm where cable attaches under inspection cover. Do all this before condemming the clutch springs and get that snake oil outa' there. Trust me, there's nothing magic in a can. Change the filter too and put in four quarts of 20-50W CONVENTIONAL oil then tell me if that doesn't improve the clutch funtion.

[cywelchjr]

First off, these older type wet clutches often don't work well with synthetics. That said, it's also possible that you don't have the clutch adjusted properly as the cable adjustment is only for the cable free play, it's not a clutch adjustment. The manual details the adjustment procedure which starts under the cover at the bottom end of the clutch cable with the clutch cable adjusted all the way in. The other part of the answer of course is yes, the springs are very likely to need replacing. This can be done without even draining the oil with the bike on the side stand. Just be aware that many of us have found our best luck on the clutch with Castrol 4T 20w50, but others have found different. You will need to experiment with what works for you, but if you replace the springs and the clutch still slips with the amsoil you may find you need to revert to quality dino oil without friction modifiers.

Remember, there are more than a few who have exceeded 100,000 miles on these engines with nothing more than normal care and conventional oils. Another point to ponder, these engines were designed for and NEED a minimum viscosity of 20w oil for proper oiling to prevent oil starvation, and most synthetics don't come in that level. Oil passage size and pump capacity are what determine the oil weight needed by an engine, I would not be comfortable running less than 15w at normal temps (winter temps are a difference story, the manual allows 10w30 if temps are below 59 deg.

[BA80]

+1 on what motoman said except get som oil that is SPECIFICALLY formulated for MC wet clutches. I recommend Castrol 4T 20w50.

[cywelchjr]

Ok, turns out everybody else on the site is faster than me today. Of course I had to pull up my owners manual to check the temp that lower viscosity oil is allowed.

[KA1J]

My goodness it was waaay out. Just started raining so I'll check how well the clutch works when the rain stops. I can feel a big difference just the 200' I rode it, I bet this'll help.

As to the Amsoil, I've been using Castrol 10W-40W while breaking in the rings over the last 2.5K miles and during that time I noticed the squirrely rpm changes under WOT & higher revs, the problem just worsened with the more slippery Amsoil but it was there before. I do plan to use 20-50 when the weather gets warm again, I've been doing that with the XJ650.

I like to use oils that last a long time and then change the filter more frequently. During the break-in I changed oil & filters four times. This last time though the oil had darkened somewhat, there weren't any more metal flakes in the filter bowl as there was during break-in. I've been using Amsoil/K&N oil filters in my 650 Maxim and haven't had anything but good luck with it.

I'm hoping for more MPG with the Amsoil but I wouldn't expect much.

But thanks to all for the replies to my clutch issue. I do think I should replace the clutch springs this winter.

One thing for sure, now I feel really good about this bike, I've had to do so much to it (with all the help from all o' y'all)that I feel secure it's solid now and it sure rides like a dream.

[cywelchjr]

Just realize that if the temps are going above 59 deg, that with oil thinner than 20w at the bottom your playing with possible oil starvation issues on the top end cause the oil pump wasn't designed to pump the thinner oil at those temps and maintain pressure and flow enough to keep enough oil up to the head. 20w50 is supposed to be good down to 41deg according to the manual, and that's with dino oil, so a synthetic 20w50 should be good even lower (and I know the Castrol at least makes a 20w50 synthetic oil, but it doesn't say it's made for wet clutches, it's made for v-twins which AFAIK don't have wet clutches. It's your bike, but I know my engine sounds FAR happier on 20w50 than on thinner oil, and if I try to go thinner it uses oil. This also means I can't buy oil at wally world, cause they don't carry 20w50.

BTW, I don't agree with Greg that you must use oil specified for wet clutches. I have used 20w50 that didn't say a thing about MC's or wet clutches without issue or slipping, as long as it's not energy conserving. But frankly, in small batches it costs about the same to buy the MC stuff, and it makes me smile to use it so that's what I use.

[ManagerMike]

I will likely bend a few noses here but.... commonly when you purchase a new set of wet clutch friction discs from a reputable vendor (EBC included), a brief instruction sheet is included recommending the installer soak the discs in the oil that will be used in the engine they are to be installed in prior to installation (it came with mine). It also explaines that this is to allow the oil of choice to be absorbed into the cork embedded into the friction material preventing initial siezure.

I asked my cousin, who is a 25 plus year carrer bike mechanic, and he agreed, further explaining that indeed, the clutch is designed to absorb the oil and that changing the oil type used can induce clutch slippage. If the clutch is relatively new, it will usually recover after a while, almost immediately if a switch is made back to the oil type it was "born" to. However, and older and/or worn clutch set will likely not recover, as the induced slippage is enough to send it 'over the edge'.

My personal experience seems to confirm this: when I first accuired my 78 (and got it running), the clutch was very poorly adjusted and slipped quite nastily on (my) maiden voyage with it. After adjustment it seemed to behave well enough, then after a hundred miles or so I thought this bike may well be worth keeping so, oil change. 21st century, 21st century oil technology right?
Full sythetic went in and it started slipping again, right in the powerband, DAMN! Switched back to "motorcycle" oil and the slippage was reduced somewhat, but never eliminated. I pulled down the clutch, and found it was very glazed and probably original, and the frictions were on average 0.011" each thinner than the new ones I had ready to install (multiply that by eight), but the springs were well within spec. I soaked the new frictions in full synthetic for about a half hour while I took a whet stone to the steels to clean them up, installed them with the original springs, and have been running the same full synthetic for three seasons (and three oil changes) with never a hint of clutch trouble. Unless, of course, you consider the annual 'free up the clutch after six months of storage - thingy'. (see many different threads here on that one)

[skids]

Maybe there is some merit to that theory, but I will never soak a new set in full synthetic oil. I guess I am just superstitious.

[ManagerMike]

Maybe there is some merit to that theory, but I will never soak a new set in full synthetic oil. I guess I am just superstitious.

If you happen to own a cage that is newer than about 2003 model year (depending on the mfg) with an automatic trans, then you are already utilizing the same tech. By 2006 just about all mfg's had switched to full synthetic auto trans oils, and of course auto transmissions use multiple sets of multi-disc wet clutch assemblies with just the same materials as used in motorcycles (there are but a few suppliers for clutch discs and it would be too costly to make them from multiple compounds).
My point however, is that whatever oil that your clutch is "used" to, you should stick with, even brand or viscosity changes CAN affect clutch performance. The same phenomenon is well known regarding automatic transmissions and replacing the oil (trans service) on one with high mileage that has not been previously serviced: the fresh oil alone can cause clutch failure (slippage).
If you need to replace friction discs, it is the opportune time to upgrade lubrication technology if you are so inclined, it has worked for me.

[KA1J]

OK, I'm willing to try a set of the Barnett clutch springs & see if that makes any difference. I'm also happy to replace the clutch cable if need be but as far as I can see it seems intact and there's no binding when I use it.

Couple of things; if it becomes a bear to use the clutch because of the stiffer springs it might become an issue for me. I'm a musician and am already fighting a piece of embedded glass in my left palm & if the clutch is markedly harder to pull in, that might irritate where the glass is and make it more difficult to play. If the difference in pull is minimal then I'm for trying the Barnett springs.

Another thing is if I replace the springs, will I need any special tools to do this and are there any gotchas I might need to know about? (After putting new rings in & after getting the bike all together, it was only then I find out there's an up & down side to rings... I then had to completely tear the bike down to get them in right & then put it all back together again.) After that ring debacle I now need to ask if there's any gotchas I need to be aware of before jumping in and having at it. BTW, 3 of the 4 #2 rings were upside down...