one chirp, another, then a squeal

[wmaddox3]

I believe it was coming from from the right side, so I pulled the tank, plugs, and valve cover, and turned it with the starter. I see oil pooling up nicely under each cam lobe. so i have reason to believe the oil pump is working.
plugs on left side are pretty badly sooted up. on the right side - speckled tan..
I went back to the airbox because the pods seemed to be too easy to knock off - the rubber cups that held them just didn't hold them well enough...

I had ridden it maybe 10-20 miles since moving the washer. so this is a real surprise. i had also pulled the boots to smear some RTV on them. the inner ones leaked until I put the old gaskets back in...

had fun with the tail/turn/brake mod. dash tail light is on. but i now have forward facing lights from the rear, SWMBO likes it! but back to the squeal...

[3Phase]

Loose Oil Pump Intermediate Drive Gear?

WMaddox, the fuel is supplied to the carburetors in pairs so trouble with the #1/#2 and #3/#4 spark plug pairs (left and right spark plug pairs) usually mean there is a fuel supply problem. You have an XJ1100 so before you yank out the carburetors to check the float valves and float levels, look for pinched or misrouted fuel lines to and from the fuel distribution and shutoff valve (the octy!) and for leaking fuel taps.


Okay, just so we're on the same sheet of music, did you hear the chirps and squeal while you were riding the bike or while the engine was running and the transmission was in Neutral? The left and right side of the bike is as seen sitting on the bike facing forward and you heard the noises from the right-hand side of the engine.

Oil to the top-end is great news! You still don't know how much oil pressure pressure it has with the engine running but at least the pump is still there and working. More than one forum member, Varnae, XJOKTOPlay, and trbig, I think, have had the clutch basket, oil pump intermediate drive gear, the oil pickup tube or the oil pump come loose. Actually, I think trbig has probably managed to find a way to break oil but that's a different story!

After taking a close look or several around the work area for any spare parts, start out by pulling the clutch cover before getting serious and removing the exhaust to drop the oil pan or tear back into the transmission. Make sure the clutch basket along with all of the gears, nuts and bolts are tight and they're all still where they're supposed to be.

Here's a thread from June, 2009, with some good pictures along with some more great ideas for troubleshooting:-

No Oil Pressure!!

Don't even try to run the engine until you find and fix the problem!

[WMarshy]

A little more information would help, at least clearer info... like, was it at idle and just appeared out of no where, or did you hit the stater button and it fired up and started squealing? Might be the starter clutch if it happened right after it fired up... mine will squeal one in a little while if it starts hard but usually only lasts a second or two... more info please.

[3Phase]

A little more information would help, at least clearer info... more info please.

Bingo. It could just be the speedometer, speedometer drive or the cable chirping and squealing if left and right were mixed up and the noises happened while the bike was moving.

[bikerphil]

Yep, the starter clutch can make a disturbing squeal from time to time.

[BA80]

I had ridden it maybe 10-20 miles since moving the washer.

Is this washer the 2nd gear washer? Is that what your talking about?

If so and you had the gear shaft out there is a bolt that goes into the end of the shaft right behind the clutch where the starter clutch teeth are that has been known to back out and get up against the clutch. If it wasn't properly torqued or even if it was and no loctite was used on the bolt threads could be what your hearing.

Or possibly the clutch release bearing.

Just a couple of thoughts. Of course this is if the 2nd gear mod is what your speaking of.

[wmaddox3]

thanks, guys -
The noise seemed to come from the right, and high, as if mounted. hadn''t been off the center stand since replacing the airbox, and the t/t/b mod.
Yes the 2nd gear washer was what i was referring to
- and I have to admit that my RTV job wasn't quite sufficient... so i have good enough reason to tear back into it, and I don't remember putting loctite on the bolt behind the clutch basket.

[3Phase]

I kind of got the general impression that you heard something in the top end when you mentioned that you took off the valve cover and looked for oil flow but ever since the psychic friends network went out of business I've had to hold my forehead against the monitor and guess a lot instead of making a phone call.

The Loctite on that big transmission shaft bolt isn't absolutely necessary but it's a good idea. I didn't need use any Loctite on that bolt once I figured out why it was coming loose in the first place but while you're in there you might as well add a little and torque it down to 51 ft-lbs just to be on the safe side.

[wmaddox3]

psychic friends


I 'll have to get better at this, I've been a 'lurker' here for a couple of years, I guess I thought y'all knew everything
But seriously I have, and am learning a lot...-

[WMarshy]

I 'll have to get better at this, I've been a 'lurker' here for a couple of years, I guess I thought y'all knew everything
But seriously I have, and am learning a lot...-

Like we said... details details details. Our response is only as good as the informaion given to us... When ya have more than one person that asking for more detail about the situation its best to take two steps back and start over... Example...

Tell us about the recent work you did before the squeal and why...
'Washer swap and second gear fix...'

Describe exactly what happen between performed work and squeal...
'Reassembled bike, started bike and everything good, idle for 5 mins nothing abnormal... took bike for a ride... 5 mins into ride heard squeal while in motion....'

Then we come back with more questions... was it under acceleration or anytime the engine was running... did you shut the bike off and start it again, did it come back immediately or after a few mins of idling or after the bike started accelerating...?

The devil is in the details, we can throw out theories all day but wont come close without good information. Just going to make more work for you in the long run...

*face-to-palm*

[BA80]

I didn't need use any Loctite on that bolt once I figured out why it was coming loose in the first place .

Just out of morbid curiosity why was it coming loose Scott?

[wmaddox3]

the devil in the details...

looked inside both engine covers, (per the link from 3Phase) and found nothing amiss. replaced covers, invoked the Almighty, started her up, no squeal, but now there was a fluttering sound, and #4 header was cool.. a little carb cleaner, RPM's rose a bit. and found another leak. out come the carbs. #4 boot gets another gasket. running a little bit better - #4 header is warming same as the others.

I'll relace my plugs and take a ride to where I can hit the kill switch, hold the clutch and brake to a stop, and check the plugs. but that will have to be tomorrow. SWIMBO wants the carpet replaced with the laminate we got on sale today !!!
I hope I 'll be able report that I'll make the Iron Horse trip next weekend.

thanks again, everyone -

[3Phase]

Just out of morbid curiosity why was it coming loose Scott?

Greg, basically I tried to make more than one change at a time and shot myself in both feet with a dull pool cue. That was back when I replaced the starter clutch and decided that would be a good time to 'improve' the transmission when there really wasn't a darn thing wrong with it at the time.

So, I did the 2nd gear washer split: machined the 2nd gear hub and used thin washers on each side of the gear instead of just moving the thick washer and letting the gear ride against the retaining clip. That's still working fine, no problems so far.

I also tried to re-shim 1st gear but I didn't really know what the heck I was doing at the time. Along with causing a couple of other issues, goofing with the shims on that side of the gear stack changed the position of the output shaft where it comes out through the bearing inner race at the right-hand side of the case. The special bolt is machined so that when the output shaft is in the correct position the outer edge of the flange on the bolt head tightens against the bearing inner race and the 'step' on the inner part of the flange seats against the output shaft.

Shim the output shaft too far to the right and the bolt head seats against the end of the shaft but not the bearing inner race.

Shim the output shaft too far to the left and the bolt head seats against the bearing inner race but not the end of the shaft.

Even with blue Loctite (I never did try the red, that might have worked) on the bolt threads, shimming too far in either direction lets the bolt head move around just a little bit, especially while you're riding. Depending on which way you shimmed the gears, the head of the bolt is either not making full contact with the bearing race or with the end of the output shaft so, eventually, the bolt comes loose and hits the back of the clutch basket.

[BA80]

Ahhh, I see. Another prime example of "If it ain't broke don't fix it" or " If it ain't broke don't break it"

Thanks, I'll have to go home after work now and take a look at what your talking about. Just what I needed, something else to worry about when I've got one apart putting it back together. CRAP!!!

[3Phase]

Nice troubleshooting!

... no squeal, but now there was a fluttering sound, and #4 header was cool.. a little carb cleaner, RPM's rose a bit. and found another leak. out come the carbs. #4 boot gets another gasket. running a little bit better - #4 header is warming same as the others.

Ah ha! An intake leak! That's a whole lot better than low or no oil pressure and a lunched cylinder head and camshafts!

Greg: put a piece of green Plastigauge under the bolt head and tighten it down to see if there's any clearance.