help a dumb noob with his brakes.

[silver_ride]

hey everyone
got myself a 1980 xs11g about 2 months ago, my first bike, and also my first introduction to a vehicle which i will have to service entirely myself. i know nothing about cars/vehicles and i am completely green when it comes to this stuff. my bike has 1,000 different issues, and i will be bringing them all to your attention in the coming weeks, but the big problem for now is the goddamn brakes, which i screwed up myself somehow.

i got a wild hair the other day and decided i'd replace the brake pads. i ordered them long ago, knowing that the brakes i bought it with were severely worn. so the other day i finally got around to attempting to replace the pads. i got the calipers off just fine, but the problem was that i couldn't get them back on the disc because the cylinder was keeping the pads too close together. so i tried to push the cylinder back in with my fingers, didn't work. i reasoned that this wasn't working cuz the system was pressurized, so i unscrewed the hose from the caliper, pushed the cylinder in, and sure enough some fluid came squirting out as i pushed it in. and you all know thats where the problem began...the brakes have been useless since then.

i sought advice from a bike-savvy buddy, the bike's service manual, and this forum. i have tried everything to get it pressurized again, including pouring fluid directly into the caliper (it just spews back out onto the ground) ...the master cylinder (i think? the part with reservoir attached to lever on rt handlebar) is not pulling any fluid through. i unhooked the line and pumped and pumped (with the diaphragm on reservoir), and only a couple drops came through. i tried sucking fluid through with my mouth on the caliper end of the hose, while holding the brake lever in. nothing. does this mean i have a bad master cylinder? i do not have the tools or experience to take the thing apart and clean it, i'll never get it put back together, so that isn't an option. any ideas? i apologize if this has been covered in another thread, if so please direct me to it.

[silver_ride]

also...



no, i don't ride with my backpack like that...set it on the rack and forgot it was there for the pic...

[NewGuy]

go to harbor frieght and get a vacuum bleeder. this should fix your problems.

1.take the cap off the brake master cylinder(make sure there is no debris, and the weephole is clean)
2. tighten all lines you loosened.
3. loosen the brake bleeder screw.
4. connect brake bleeder and bleed brakes(instruction come with the tool, but it is very important that you keep fresh fluid in the master cylinder reservoir)
5. once fresh fluid starts running through the brake bleeder (its clear) tighten the bleeder screw.
6.now pump the brakes, making sure the master cylinder reservoir is kept full.

this should fix the problem. next time use a c-clamp to push the pistons in with the old pads still on, then install the new pads and bleed the brakes. you tube has several how too's for brake jobs.

I have had several issues with brakes not getting pressure in cars, trucks, and my bike. the reason is just too much air in the system and the vacuum bleeder worked like a charm for all of them!

[NewGuy]

also, your bike looks very clean, wish mine looked so good when i brought it home.

[skids]

1st, brake fluid is very corrosive to painted surfaces. Cover your tank or you will be sad. Second, bleeding the brakes is best done with two people.

The one on the brake handle pumps up pressure and then holds it and says "open". at that point the guy on the caliper slightly releases the bleed nipple while the brake handle squeezes the rest of its travel.

Then when the brake handle reaches the stop, he says "close" to close the nipple before releasing the brake handle.

Those two steps are repeated many times while paying close attantion to the reservoir. You don't want that to run low because air will get back into the lines. I like to do that to one side for a while and then start working on the other caliper. Alternate until the pressure comes up.

It also helps to run a hose from the nipple to a glass jar to collect expelled fluid. I have a Mighty Vac (like 30.00 from the auto parts store) and it is very easy to use. With the mighty Vac you will see air seeping in at the hose connection on the nipple, which can give you a false idea that air is still being pumped out of the system. I have also heard that you can tie your brake handle to the squeezed position overnight to get any remaining air out.

[silver_ride]

thanks fellas. i'll get to harbor freight after work tomorrow, try it again and hopefully i won't have to waste any more of your/my time with this stupid problem.

thanks for noticing the cleanliness of my new girlfriend! she sure is pretty. PO('s) took very good care of her, but he sure butchered up the electricals, unfortunately...more on that later

[NewGuy]

if you still have the old fusebox pm this guy TopCatGr58 for a new one with car style fuses. i just ordered mine, its a simple fix.

[latexeses]

Don't worry about wasting anyone's time here. Someone on here has at one time or another had every problem or question you will have.

Just ask. You are around friends.....

[DGXSER]

Ok, so I will ask the hard question first, is the brake fluid in the caliper and the master cylinder relatively clean? If not, you may well need to clean the master cylinder and the calipers before you go bleeding it all out. These parts are actually very very simple and easy to work on and get back together correctly.

If the fluid is clean, then, one thing you may need to do is "bench bleed" the master cylinder. To do this, take a towel or blanket and cover your tank and everything else around the mster cylinder, as Skids stated, brake fluid = REALLY good paint stripper!! Pull the front bolt /line off the master cylinder, put your finger over the hole and work the brake lever. Keep doing this till you can barely keep your finger over the hole. Then quickly let your finger off and then back on the hole. Do this a few times till one pull will push your finger off the hole. Now, pull your finger off and quickly push the line and bolt into place and bolt it up. Then continue to bleed at the calipers as has been described.

[silver_ride]

the fluid appears clean, at least the stuff in the reservoir. there IS no fluid in the lines, its 100% air, that's the problem...i need to replace all the air with brake fluid...this much i know.

my bike has 2 front brakes, on both sides of the wheel...not sure if all xs11's are this way, but i assume so...is there a certain procedure for pressurizing them both? is it different for the rear? i haven't touched the rear brake yet, so hopefully i can just switch out the pads and not mess with bleeding it...or should i?

[James England]

Are you saying that, where you live, you can go out and buy, and legally ride, an 1100cc bike as a first bike? Wow

Re the brakes, what you could have done is use a lever to push the piston back into the caliper in order to get the extra space required for the new pads to slot in. Reading what you've said, you simply have a lot of air in the system and you need to bleed it out. I've found the best technique is to jiggle the brake lever quickly several times and hold it pulled in about 90% of maximum. Undo the bleed nipple on the caliper with a tube attached so that the fluid goes into a container. Undo the nipple and apparently nothing happens. Tighten it up and do the jiggle again, making sure that the brake reservoir is topped up with fluid. After several times of apparently nothing happening, you might hear a splutter, or see some fluid coming out of the tube. That means you're getting there. Just keep doing it.... little jiggles followed by holding the lever at 90% of full.... undo the nipple etc etc.

Two calipers is normal for the XS1100.

[fredintoon]

Are you saying that, where you live, you can go out and buy, and legally ride, an 1100cc bike as a first bike? Wow - - -

Hi James,
and so we used to back 'ome before the safety nannies took over. Nobody would even dream of rioting in the streets in those days but we could all strap L-plates on a Vincent Black Shadow and swan off to Brighton.
And Brian,
speed bleeders may help.

[James England]

Hi James,
and so we used to back 'ome before the safety nannies took over. Nobody would even dream of rioting in the streets in those days but we could all strap L-plates on a Vincent Black Shadow and swan off to Brighton.
And Brian,
speed bleeders may help.

I was able to drive up to a 250cc on L plates. I passed my test on a Suzuki GT125 and, the same day, traded it in for a 650 Bonneville. A few months later I bought my first XS1100. I thought that progression was pretty good but the idea of riding an XS1100 as a first bike fills me with a certain terror!

[DGXSER]

Not sure why, but here in the states, well all of them I have been to and talked to folks from of late, a bike of less than 1000 CC is considered a girls bike or a very beginners bike.

Now, I had never owend or drove a bike over 750 CC till I bought my first XS11 a couple years ago. So I still do not get it, but that is the stereo type.

[crazy steve]

Are you saying that, where you live, you can go out and buy, and legally ride, an 1100cc bike as a first bike?

The regulations for this have changed over the years, and do vary from state to state. Prior to about 1970, there was no regulations pertaining to riding here in Washington, all you needed was a 'general' drivers license. They put in a requirement for an endorsement about then (any bike), then later put in 'levels' (50cc-400, 401-750,751-up) but abandoned that after a number of years. So now it's back to just a plain endorsement...

It was interesting that as I had an endorsement, when they went to the 'size' rating I was automatically 'grandfathered' in at the max size. Of course, by that point I owned my XS and had been riding it for for a number of years. I don't know if they checked licenses against registrations, or just did that as a general rule, as I never asked.