Popping On #4 Carb

[MrOzz]

Well same fuel amount in all 4 carbs. Thats good I guess. Fuel seems to be flowing good into carbs now.

Using the colortune, I am getting the start of a yellow flame. But I have 6 turns out on #3 and #4. Only 4 1/2 on #1 and #2.

Do you think that too much on #3 and #4?

I am running a dynojet kit, and pods. Using stage 1 with the DJ124 main. If I remember correctly the main should not effect the idle mixture.

Do you think I should mess with the float levels? Think that might help?

[MrOzz]

Well after giving up for a bit today I went back to work on my bike.

I am wondering if I lower the clip on the needle will that help to richen the mixture for the idle?

Do you think that replacing the air pilot jet that dynojet supplied would work?

I am not sure if the dynojet one is bigger than the stock 185 pilot air jet.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ozz,

The needle clip is for mains/slide, not the pilot circuit.

6 turns out does seem too much, per book, more than 3 full turns is reason to increase pilot jet size. Are the pilot jets OEM or did they come with the Dyno-Jet kit?? Another fellow is having jetting troubles with his "kit", just wondering!

Are your carbs the bastardized 80 ones that have the pilot jet tower capped, or are they open to the float bowl/uncapped?

Pilot jets clean/clear? Can't remember, OEM airbox or pods, oem exhaust or aftermarket?
T.C.

[DGXSER]

As to the needle position, I can say this with absolute certainty, if you raise the needle position, it will richen up the idle circuit. The theory that the mains and therefore the needles only effect the upper end is based upon the base or original needle position.

I know I put my slide assy back together in the wrong order once, I basically had the spring in the slide holding the needle up instead of down. Well, that cylinder ran so rich no matter how I set the mixture screw, it would foul the plug out sitting at a stop light. But run it above 3k and shut it down and the plug was clean as a whistle.

So raising the needle will cause the idle mix to richen up.

[natemoen]

As to the needle position, I can say this with absolute certainty, if you raise the needle position, it will richen up the idle circuit. The theory that the mains and therefore the needles only effect the upper end is based upon the base or original needle position.

I know I put my slide assy back together in the wrong order once, I basically had the spring in the slide holding the needle up instead of down. Well, that cylinder ran so rich no matter how I set the mixture screw, it would foul the plug out sitting at a stop light. But run it above 3k and shut it down and the plug was clean as a whistle.

So raising the needle will cause the idle mix to richen up.

now I am not familiar with the late model carbs diaphragm/needle setup but how much does the spring in the wrong spot raise the needle? Moving the clip only moves it about 1mm.

[DGXSER]

Nate, I think it may only be the 81 models that have that issue, the 80 still has the movable clip, in 81 they eliminated the needle adjustment.

The spring in the wrong place probably moves it maybe a couple mm is my guess. The spring gets compressed when you put the cover over the assembly and it is only about 4-5 mm to start with. The design is that the spring pushes down on the washer over the needle to hold it down.

[MrOzz]

Hey Ozz,

The needle clip is for mains/slide, not the pilot circuit.

6 turns out does seem too much, per book, more than 3 full turns is reason to increase pilot jet size. Are the pilot jets OEM or did they come with the Dyno-Jet kit?? Another fellow is having jetting troubles with his "kit", just wondering!

Are your carbs the bastardized 80 ones that have the pilot jet tower capped, or are they open to the float bowl/uncapped?

Pilot jets clean/clear? Can't remember, OEM airbox or pods, oem exhaust or aftermarket?
T.C.

The Dynojet instructions state 4 turns out. The Pilot Jets are OEM. The Dynojet kit comes with a selection of Main Jets, Dynojet #s DJ124 DJ128 and DJ138. The Pilot Air Jet, Dynojet #DJ190. After a little Internet search I found that the Dynojet DJ190 is smaller than the OEM 185. The DJ190 is close to a OEM 180.

As far as I can tell the pilot jet tower has not had any cap on it. I did buy it from some one else, so you never know what a PO has done.

Any way to tell for sure?

I am running pods, oem exhaust. Pilot jets clean as a whistle.

[MrOzz]

Nate, I think it may only be the 81 models that have that issue, the 80 still has the movable clip, in 81 they eliminated the needle adjustment.

The spring in the wrong place probably moves it maybe a couple mm is my guess. The spring gets compressed when you put the cover over the assembly and it is only about 4-5 mm to start with. The design is that the spring pushes down on the washer over the needle to hold it down.

The OEM needle jet on the 80 is the single clip just like your 81. The Dynojet needle jet has the grooves so you can adjust it.

[DGXSER]

Thanks Ozz.

As to telling if you need the pilot jet plug, look inside the tower the pilot jet is in. If you see a diagonal hole coming from the direction of the main jet tower, then yes, you need the plug. This is very uncommon to have this, but I have seen a set with it.

[MrOzz]

Thanks Ozz.

As to telling if you need the pilot jet plug, look inside the tower the pilot jet is in. If you see a diagonal hole coming from the direction of the main jet tower, then yes, you need the plug. This is very uncommon to have this, but I have seen a set with it.

Thanks.

I will look in to it.

Without the plug what type of carbs issues will you notice?

[MrOzz]

Well I looked at the carbs. I dont see anything that would require the passage plugs.

IDK what to do now. I had the pilot screws out 6 turns. Played around with them, now I have them out about 4 1/2 turns, getting the hint of yellow flame with the color tune. But it does not want to stay there. When using the colortune do you turn the screw and have to wait a minute or two before you see any change? Also when I give the bike a rev the color goes to blue to almost white. That normal?

I played with the needle jet after all that. No change in the idle circuit. I put the clips back to the dynojet spec.

If I play around with the float level will that help with a lean/rich mixture? If so, lower float level richens?

Do you think I should mess with the float level or look somewhere else for the issue?

Thanks again all.

[bikerphil]

when I give the bike a rev the color goes to blue to almost white. That normal? If I play around with the float level will that help with a lean/rich mixture? If so, lower float level richens?

It should actually be turning more of an orange when revving. Blue is slightly lean and white is super lean. With the carbs upside down, the lower the floats sit, the richer they are. Try decreasing your float setting by at least 1MM.

[MrOzz]

It should actually be turning more of an orange when revving. Blue is slightly lean and white is super lean. With the carbs upside down, the lower the floats sit, the richer they are. Try decreasing your float setting by at least 1MM.

Thanks for the info Phil. I will give that a try and see what happens.

If I am correct, I hope this will help solve the lean condition from the idle to wot.

Ozz

[MrOzz]

Idk

Well I pulled the valve cover and checked the valves. All are right in spec. Set my floats to 22mm. I still cannot get a emergence of yellow flame without 5 1/2 to 6 turns out at idle. Installed the DJ138 main jet, largest in the Dynojet kit. Set my needle jets down one. I now get the cobalt blue color in the higher rpms.

Now I cannot turn my idle down anymore. But on the other had she is idling around 1100 rpms. Took her out for a test ride. All seems ok, not great but ok. A little pop on deceleration and at idle.

IDK where to go from this point. Seems like I tried it all and not really going anywhere. Should I even care about the emergence of the yellow flame at idle?

Any suggestions?

I am almost to the point of putting my ride at the end of the driveway with a for-sale sign. The sad part is I know I would not make back close to the extras and all the work I put in.

[TopCatGr58]

The Pilot Jets are OEM.

You're running OEM exhaust, Pod filters, surprised that it's that lean in the pilot cicuit, but from how it's behaving, it is! Sounds like you might want to try going up 1 size in the Pilot jet size..I think the 80SG used the 42.5, so up to 45.0. You may need/want to reset your floats back to OEM, but you stated you now have good color when on the mains, so "they" say change only 1 thing at a time, so new pilots and see what happens.

T.C.