And The Problems Begin

[SovereignDragon]

So my XS11 has been sitting for almost a year now. I told a friend I would sell it to him. It would need carbs, not carbs cleaned, but new carbs. He finally gets me the money to pay for the bike (a year later) and off to work I go. When this bike was parked it ran, like ****e, but it ran. I pulled off the carbs to clean them and found the number one carb body to be broken and the rest of them were all f'ed up. I got some very clean carbs and cleaned them again. I shimmed the valves all to spec, double checked the timing, made sure the carbs were clean, cleaned and oiled the air filter (k&n stock replacement), and set the screws in the carbs at one and a half turns out. It refuses to actually run. Cranking on it with some home made iv bottles only gets me a loud backfire through both pipes and a flame through the airbox. I just triple checked the timing and it's dead on. I'm at a loss here people. Someone help me so I can get this bike back on the road where it belongs. I really hate getting rid of it but I'm not a tall guy and it's a tall bike. I refuse to accept that I'll just have to refund the money and see it parted. It's a Yamaha XS11 and they are bulletproof.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Dragon,

IF it's been sitting for a year, so has the battery. Don't know if you've kept it on a tender, or just recently charged it back up, but you'll want to check the voltage, sounds like it might be dropping during cranking below the 10.5 volts the TCI needs to work/fire properly? Can also try jumping it with a car battery, car OFF if battery still in car, and see if it will start.

May also be the pickup coil wires...see the tech tips for how to diagnose and repair.

T.C.

[bikerphil]

Did the spark plug wires get mixed up by any chance? JAT

[DGXSER]

Along the same lines as Phil's thought did you at any point pull the coils out or the wires that feed them get disconnected? It sounds like the timing is off, I have heard this same symptom in person and here on this site several times, and it tends to be the coil grey and orange wires got swapped. Swap them once and see what you get.

Otherwise, to ask the obvious, is there fuel in the tank, are the petcocks on Prime or Reserve just to be sure your fuel level is not below the petock intake?

[SovereignDragon]

I had a multimeter on the battery so I could watch the drain. The battery has been charged but once it hit 10 volts I'd stop cranking. Also the coils never got pulled. The wires yes but they are back on in proper order. It sounds like timing to me too which is what I don't get. I forgot to mention I think I was 180 degrees out on my first few attempts. I would crank and crank and nothing. Pull a plug and it was as clean as could be. The plugs are brand new and gapped at 30. After changing the timing 180 degrees I'm getting gas to the cylinders now. I just don't get the backfiring through the intake. It's always been my experience that if you have something shooting a flame out the carb your timing is off.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey again,

Okay, 10 volts ain't gonna cut it! I recently experienced this when I was preparing my bike for a rally, would crank, crank, crank, but never fire! Remembered the low voltage thing and found mine was dropping below 10.5, so would crank but no spark. Put a jumper battery wired directly to the TCI fuse, and it fired right up! Charge it, put a jumper battery, but get those volts to at least 11 when cranking, and it should fire up!
T.C.

[81xsproject]

While your low voltage is probably the culprit, I have found that for idle mixture, 2.5 turns out from seated to be a much better starting point.

[SovereignDragon]

I was just about to head outside and start working. I'll try turning them out one more from 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 and see if that helps. Also, the battery has been on the charger since last night. Hopefully it's holding it's charge.

[SovereignDragon]

Well, after turning out the mixture screws to 2 1/2 and cranking I still got nothing. It sounds like it wants to run so bad but just won't fire up. Something I just thought of, isn't the headlight supposed to come on after a good hit? My headlight isn't coming on. Also I changed handlebars and never tightened down the switch housings. I also changed my clutch perch. Is there maybe a safety that needs bypassed in the wiring on the left side of the bars?

[skids]

Just wondering... how did you change the timing 180 degrees?

[SovereignDragon]

Loosened the cam chain tensioner, unbolted the cams from the sprockets, turned them. I had pulled the cams a while back and was must have mixed them up. I pulled the cams originally because I couldn't get my valve bucket tool to hold down the buckets properly and didn't want to damage the threads on the heads. I took my measurements, pulled the cams, swapped shims, and put the cams back in.

[DGXSER]

Did you pull both cams out? Did you perhaps switch the exhuast and intake cams? I'm not certain you can do this as I have never tried. Or are you saying you put the timing gears on the cams incorrectly? Or just forgot to lign up the dots on the cams with the marks on the caps.

[Mr. Schweer]

TopCat, for there to be fire coming out of the carbs and popping out of the exhaust, there HAS to be spark. If not spark, then just noxious gas fumes would be pulsing out. From what the op has said he's done with the cams, I would think that the spockets are one or two teeth 'off' from where they should be. I've seen that happen more than a few times when guys swap out cams (in cars, but an engine is an engine) in a hurry and don't get the timing marks lined up properly.
I might try either pulling the the cam cover and double-checking the timing marks, or adjusting the timing. When the back-fire comes through the carbs, the timing is usually too far advanced as the plug is firing before the intake valve closes. Try retarding the timing and see if it fires. If that works and the timing had not been moved prior to this, I would definately pull the cover and check the cam alignment.

[b.walker5]

+1. Except that he stated that he had the timing spot on. Definately sounds more like electrical timing rather than cam timing. Have the pick up wires been checked and are you absolutely sure you have the plugs wires back on in the right order?

[SovereignDragon]

Hey everyone, sorry for the lack of response lately. I've been working on some other projects. I went to recheck my valves and noticed I couldn't even fit my smallest feeler gauge under the number one intake. I'm going to readjust my shims and try again.