my beast ate some uni foam - how much to worry about it getting indigestion?

[Sol]

Longer story trunicated to middlin:
I had carb problems that arose only when my air box was on, the final solution was to ditch the box in order to sort the problem. That problem got dealt with and now I'm running it with the velocity stacks/boots and foam and wire mesh inserts I gutted from my uni air filter. it worked worked great - for a while. Then last night I had an opening to twist the wrist and it sucked the kit and caboodle into the carbs. this resulted in the carbs sticking open and a runaway acceleration situation. as soon as this happend I hit the kill switch & clutch coasted it off the road. after pushing it to a gas station and pulling the boots and carbs and fishing almost all the bits out I was less 2 the two foam filter cutouts from #2. I think it ate them! having no real option to coddle it I put it back together and drove it home. it did nothing amiss or odd on the way home. they where not in the carb and not in the head and anything in a combustion chamber is by definition bad but how much should I worry about that foam?
If I had a shop my curiosity would have it dissected but I don't want to pull my top end apart in my back yard in monsoon season!

Thoughts guys?

[BA80]

Heh heh.... That's an interesting story.

The foam won't hurt anything I don't think, it will just get chewed up, burnt, and spit out.

[Sol]

ya, I feel like a tard.

I left it out in the story above but it could have literally started: "It was a dark and stormy night". It was cloudy and after dark and as I was getting it to the gas station a thunder storm blew in, so I was pulling my carbs under the island roof with thunder and lightening and rain water run off invading my space. all the tools at my disposal where 1 screwdriver, so the seat and tank where in place. awsome. well on one hand this would not have happend with the air box on, but on the other I could have never pulled the repair off if it was on - so 50/50?

[cywelchjr]

I don't see any way the foam would hurt anything in the engine if it didn't clog up the carbs. Unless something else is wrong, the airbox is typically the easiest setup to tune the carbs to, and if they won't tune to it, something is wrong somewhere. That said, if you want to run without the box, you need proper filters that CAN'T get sucked into the carbs, makeshift typically will NOT make it long term, especially if you really crank the wrist hard.

[Larrym]

No F.O.D.

Sol,

+1 for the "Made it through the engine with Zero Effect/Affect."

The motor's just a big air pump anyway.

Likely any melted residue has lodged in the muffler baffles but not enough material in the foam section to affect the back pressure. Nothing else to do about it there if you have the original exhaust system.

I'd be more concerned that any folks who saw you under a roof during last night's storm would be thinking that you really didn't have anything wrong with your bike and that you were just pretending so you wouldn't get wet...

(If you said it sucked in a Palo Verde Beetle I'd have cause for genuine concern)

[mjpxs11sh]

wide open carbs in a thunderstorm and u pull over and take the carbs off?
thats desperate dedication. bet uve had those carbs off many times b4! im sure the engine ate up any foam without causing an issue. it wasnt metal mesh.

[Sol]

thanks! I won't worry about it blowing up now.

Cool, I wanted you to tell me not to worry about the bikes eating disorder. I have a plan for the next version of the filtered V stacks so that it should not happen again.

so to clear up a few things:

The reason I pulled the air box:
I after going through my carbs they would wet bench test fine but once I had the air box on they would leak. I could not figure out which ones where doing it with the air box on and it only seemed to do it with the air box on. so off came the box. after a while it did leak again but I could now tell which one was doing it and I got it taken care of. I balanced them and I did the idle jets by ear and they were close to the base line suggested setting. best I can do with out a color tune.

as for the set up I was running:
first I had circular screen inserts wedged in the v stack followed by 2 foam cut outs upstream toward the mouth of the stack. this worked and if anything would have had slightly greater restriction then the uni in the stock box. I should have been close to a stock setup. I can adjust the amount of foam to match the jetting rather then the other way around. I do need to do some chops and check the plugs once I get it the way I like it.

then I got vain and since I liked the look of the screen better then the foam
I reversed the order of the cut outs in the stack and stuck a smaller piece of screen behind them to hold them in place ( I was running out of material).
this also worked for a while but was not up to full throttle. I'll do it again but with a full second second circle of screen of some less pretty material behind them. perhaps 1/4" rat wire square wire fencing or some such - I cant seem to find the expanded dimond metal screen they made the air filter out of in sheet form. I may just gut some used auto filter for more.

that would be from carb side to air inlet side:
screen retainer, foam, foam, screen retainer.

most of the foam did get stuck in the butterfly of the carbs when the second configuration failed and I fished it out. the metal got hung up in the cv cyl. that is all but number #2 in which the foam was just gone.

when I put it back together I reverted to configuration 1 but with only 1 foam insert each as to not have it unbalanced but it was presumably lean.

I have new uni foam coming and will give it another try. no riding till then.

Thanks!

[natemoen]

Thought on the airbox issue (just out of my own curiosity). Do your carbs have both the upper and lower T's on them for just the lower T's. If it has both maybe the airbox nipples are not drilled out to allow the venting of the float bowls causing them to overflow.

JAT

[petejw]

hi sol, im running the air box v stax with uni filters fitted over the top, i used pvc piping pushed into the end of the v stax 2 prevent the rubber from collapsing and to give the spring fitted inside the uni filter 4 sum support, works well. Jat. With regards 2 the air box nate makes a good point.

[Sol]

Mine has just the 2 lower fuel inlet "T"'s on the carb.

Good thought Nate but I have just the 2 lower "T"'s. I got that one sorted - just at the time I could not tell where the problem was as the air box was in the way. My floats were making the slightest contact some where. when I'd look at them I could see some clearance, test 'em and it was fine. put 'em on the bike and they would be fine. put the air box back on and run it around and it would leak. pull the air box and test on the bike it'd be fine. so which carb is the problem? finally I did what I did so I could catch it in the act and 'cus I was sick of pulling the air box. I did catch it with the set up I have now and though it looked like it had clearance I adjusted all the floats to have the same (greater) clearance using my mm Allen's as feeler gauges. I got 2.5mm all around now. has not leaked since. my first set up on the filters in the V Stacks worked fine. then I got vain and tried to put the screen in front of the filters rather then behind them and since I had little of the screen from the uni left just inserted strips of it behind the foam rather then a full circle with a curled over lip. er I should have known better. bikes eat anything you let them...

Pete: got a photo of that? I'm curious. Did you cut your Stacks and put the uni's over them or give yourself enough PVC out the throat of the Stack to put the filter over the PVC with your Stack flush to the back of the filter to hide the PVC? how was your jetting? I have been trying to avoid having to re-jet by trying to match my restriction to the stock jetting. I hear from the site that the gains are not so much power wise when reducing restriction and increasing fuel to match - then again when the filters sucked in while I was already at WOT it seamed to take off like a freight train loosing some cars... but then things get a little subjective when the unexpected happens.
my reasons where ease of access at the time.

I got my fresh foam in the mail today, so I will continue down my chosen path. I know the current screens I have work to hold the foam when the screens are in the downstream position so I will stick with that. It was wanting them on the upstream side that got me. Insert some foam cut outs. then use some gutted auto air filter screens to make beauty screens for the front. my new foam is black not the ugly yellow of the first stuff I had anyway. the screen from the auto filters is vary soft AL so it would be useless as the downstream retainer. where as the screen from the uni that came with the bike was stiffer expanded sheet steel. then re-balance the carbs for good measure and do some throttle chops to see if I over or under foamed it. that last part will have to wait as I have this work thing and I don't have a day off till the 12th.

If it works long term I might give it some photos and a wright up just to toss a pictorial option to the after market cones. - with a special safety note.

To Hijack myself:
I have a oil leak out the end of my Cam Chain Tensioner and was reading around on it. suggestions are to reseal the plug with RTV. Hum - no plug.
Just slather a glob of RTV in there? alt plug materials? or are they 50 cents with $7 shipping?

Have a good weekend riding!

[petejw]

sol, i left the vstax as is, ive got a pic on here somewhere im about 2 head out il c if i can find it when i get back, the pvc fitted inside the v stack with the end chamfered, i bump the mains to 115 from 110. I used silicone spray 2 slide the pvc inside the v stack and to slide the uni filter ovr.

[Larrym]

CCT Leak Fix: Version 1.0

Sol,

My previous CCT Leak Fix is still in service and "non-leaky":

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...&highlight=CCT

Still haven't painted it yet...

[Sol]

Brilliant!

I like that! I was stuck on an inner plug rather then an over fitting solution. Some times I get stuck in the skullbox, sometimes I even make the blinders myself. I have those materials just laying around. I might just clear coat mine after darkening it with a torch - it would work with my gold/brass highlights on the MNS. Thanks

[Larrym]

Forever Goopy???

I like that! I was stuck on an inner plug rather then an over fitting solution. Some times I get stuck in the skullbox, sometimes I even make the blinders myself. I have those materials just laying around. I might just clear coat mine after darkening it with a torch - it would work with my gold/brass highlights on the MNS. Thanks

Sol,

If you do the "over-the-CCT" cap fix then be sure to allow whatever sealant you chose to use on the actual plug to DRY/CURE before installing the "cap". The sealants need air to firm up and if you put the cap on BEFORE this happens the sealant will stay goopy forever. (Not do a darn bit for stopping the oil leak either...)

I got the idea for my fix after seeing other members efforts to design/install something to prevent the CCT from "spitting the plug".

[Sol]

Perhaps a Double Oops Then - Lets see how it works anyway!

since I don't have many other options now that it has been done

I did paint the cap black.

Cleaned and roughed up the surfaces.

Mixed up some JB Weld in the cap and taped it on.
- without any other plug in the CCT weep hole -
as long as it does not get onto the slide of the CCT it should be fine.

Since JB Weld is a 2 part epoxy resin it should harden up with or without exposure to atmosphere. - or so I thought - It might need humidity, which is currently with us.

I was careful not to block the bolt holes to remove the thing, so if it don't do the trick of keeping the oil off the hot parts I may just go with the self adjusting replacement. I would anyway - I'm just cheap!

As to progress on the V-stacks I cut my foam and beauty screens and fit it all together. put them back on the bike, re-did my fuel lines for the Nth time, and started it. (-This was before I proceeded on to the CCT cap, I'm giving info out of order-) Just going by ear but I may have to much of a good thing now, it seems rich. I'll fiddle with it Saturday till it feels right then give it a fresh sync and perhaps get some throttle chops in. I damned if I can think of a road I can get away with some WOT and a pull over on safely without attracting to much attention. Or perhaps I'm thinking to hard again. Sometimes really thinking about what you are doing saves your bacon, and sometimes you just have to DO it or you will never be properly prepared. "I'm ready, did we schedule the support vehicle?" Anyway, the highway patrol is free to pullover and see what I'm doing as long as they don't see what I was doing just prior to pulling over