Rims too heavy...

[crazy steve]

There's a bit too much paranoia at work here...

James brought up the perfect example, the XJ wheels. Here's a wheel with 10 skimpy small cross-section spokes, and a curved design no less. That design would give me pause, but I haven't heard of any 'everyday-use' failures on those. Being curved, those offer almost no stress transfer due to their design, depending almost entirely on the rigidity of the casting/material for load bearing/transfer. They resemble springs as much as anything, and springs aren't known for being rigid. And look at some of the cast wheels on newer bikes; you see some with as few as three spokes, and with a similar-to-the-XJ angled spoke design.

The XS wheel IMO is heavily over-built. A few round 'lightening holes' in the spoke webs would have almost zero affect on it's structural strength, and I don't think you'd have any strength issues unless you removed almost all of the spoke web. If unmodified wheel strength was a issue, you'd be seeing fatigue cracks in these by now. In terms of weight savings, it would be so little as to be unnoticeable. Now, with that said, I wouldn't do it, but not for strength reasons; I'd hate to have clean those holes as you know they're going to collect dirt/grime...

Now, the part that's really amusing to me is you've got some guys that are worried about the wheels but are willing to install a demonstratably lighter-duty FD on their bikes....

[DAVINCI]

Now, the part that's really amusing to me is you've got some guys that are worried about the wheels but are willing to install a demonstratably lighter-duty FD on their bikes....

Easy, there..don't let your title go to your head....might lead you to baiting.

[crazy steve]

No baiting, just pointing out the contradiction...

[James England]

guys that are worried about the wheels but are willing to install a demonstratably lighter-duty FD on their bikes....

There is a big difference though, surely? The rear wheel has an axle all the way through it. A front wheel disintegrating would be a lot more catastrophic and difficult to handle than a rear wheel problem of any sort at all. Also, whilst not actually meant for the 1100, the 750FD can handle at least what an XS750 puts out in terms of power etc. As 3-Phase has demonstrated, it's possible to monitor wear on the FD and take appropriate action, which might mean ditching the 750FD altogether. I would guess that worn/damaged bearings would become apparent because of noise, clunks and sloppiness. Unless you have X-ray eyes. it's rather more difficult to spot imminent wheel weaknesses after drilling metal out it of all over the place. I suspect that wheel failure would just happen in an instant, with no forewarning.

[crazy steve]

There is a big difference though, surely?....
.... I suspect that wheel failure would just happen in an instant, with no forewarning.

James, with an aluminum wheel I would expect cracks to appear long before you had a catastrophic failure, giving you ample warning. You've got seven spokes, what are the chances that all seven would break at once? I'd be far more concerned with a FD, where a single bearing seizure could lock the unit up at speed.

A big part of why the XS wheels are so 'beefy' is the casting methods used. These were sand-cast and that method lacks the precision available later with modern injection-molding or even the improved sand casting available today. They weren't able to control material placement as well, besides the difficulty of getting the material to 'gravity-flow' into small mold passages. If you examine a modern cast wheel, you'll find they're considerably lighter, using the same alloys.

[yamahansolo]

Get Xj rims...

[WMarshy]

Or you could swap the straight spoke wheels for the swirly ones. I think they were fitted to the XJ's over there. You'd save over a kilogram each with no other mods at all

I think your missing the intent, its not merely weight sayings. If that was the case I would just go with a busa front wheel and forks... Im just looking to add my own touch, just happen to be removing some weight at the same time.

Easy, there..don't let your title go to your head....might lead you to baiting.

Easy big fella, no need to start shooting from the hip. I don't think you understand, anytime someone comes up with an idea like this everyone get divided about it until its completed successfully and proven not to be a failure. Even then some people remain divided about it and the 750FD is the perfect example.

Get Xj rims...

Wrong answer...

...Unless you have X-ray eyes it's rather more difficult to spot imminent wheel weaknesses after drilling metal out it of all over the place. I suspect that wheel failure would just happen in an instant, with no forewarning.

James, I'm not looking to make swiss cheese out of it man. Just adding 3 or 4 holes to each spoke web... I also don't think the wheels is going to spontaneously explode. Maybe I will have some NDE performed after I put some miles on it, if I ever get to that point.

[DAVINCI]

Well, perception IS reality. So, go for it. Just don't forget the pics.

[psycoreefer]

I was going to suggest finding suitable wheels off a newer bike, but it doesn't sound like thats a solution you want to explore. I noticed the other day I parked next to a newer honda shadow and it had 5 spoke rims that looked a whole lot like ours, but I'd bet their lighter.

I say do your analysis magic, and go for it. Post pictures and let us know how it turns out. Oh and take it easy to start with just in case

[DGXSER]

Steve, its not paranoia, it is healthy respect for physics. You can cut a great deal of material out, but if you put a 1/4" hole in the stress point, your going to go down in a hurry. Like I stated, this is an area I have alot of experience with having spent ten years designing aircraft engine components. Those spoke wheels may look funky, but they have meat in them, and they attach at both ends solidly, they have a stress path that works. But, cut a hole in a stress line and they too will fail miserably.

Think of it like this, I can go into your house, find a floor joist that is maybe a 2X10, and cut a hole 8X30 out of it and never hurt the structure of your house. Or I can cut a hole for a 1/2" water pipe and your floor will sink in less than a year all depending on where I cut each hole.

As to comparing cutting holes in your wheel with mounting a smaller final drive, well I guess you can compare crossing a busy road (swapping a final drive in the danger factor) with base jumping into the grand canyon (cutting holes in your wheel) to. how can someone cross that road, yet be afraid to base jump the GC?

[James England]

You've got seven spokes, what are the chances that all seven would break at once?

You wouldn't need all seven to go at once, Steve. If one spoke goes, the other six will go immediately afterwards, most probably because the rim would collapse. I mean a wheel is a holistic kind of thing, eh? One cable of a suspension bridge snapping can bring the lot down... etc.

I know what you mean re the casting being primitive... all those seams and nooks and crannies are evidence of that and they aren't the prettiest wheels around... although they managed the spiral ones very soon afterwards and they are rather delicate looking by comparison.

I also agree that a hole drilled in just the wrong place could cause a failure of the wheel, though.

Thinking about this, and the comparison which you've made re not drilling holes but swapping FD's....... I was out tonight, doing 70 down a clear road and thought about the FD and the consequences of a rear wheel lock-up. I've had two of those, on small bikes, one due to a badly worn chain jumping off (my mate's Honda CB200) and another due to a rear tyre blowout where the tyre left the rim and wound itself around. The first one threw me off completely. The second one (XT500) I managed to control to a stop. I would definitely not want this to happen on my XS1100 because of the drive. I am thinking of starting a new thread with a poll, to ask how many people think it's safe and how many don't. I suspect this may cause WWIII though...... I'm not 100% re the safety of the swap and, even if there were a 5% chance of serious failure, I'd put the OEM drive back on.

[James England]

James, I'm not looking to make swiss cheese out of it man.

That made me laugh!

[yamahansolo]

But the xjs are so stylish ... I would just be happier with a wider bead... I eat back tires in 3000 miles or so.if the xJ is wider I might swap mine since I have a set... I like the XS better though.

[cywelchjr]

But the xjs are so stylish ... I would just be happier with a wider bead... I eat back tires in 3000 miles or so.if the xJ is wider I might swap mine since I have a set... I like the XS better though.

The XJ is 16" rather than 17, and the limiting factor on tire width is more the swingarm than the rim, as the swingarm will rub on a not much larger than stock tire, to go larger requires either some sort of offset system and/or modification of the swingarm around the driveshaft area or going to a chain drive setup. One of the problem with all the chain drive setups I have seen for the 11's is the size of the front sprocket you can use is so small that chain life is going to be really short. You have to be able to move the forward sprocket out far enough to get clearance there, and then it's likely to get in the way of your leg .

[jetmechmarty]

I am thinking of starting a new thread with a poll, to ask how many people think it's safe and how many don't. I suspect this may cause WWIII though...... I'm not 100% re the safety of the swap and, even if there were a 5% chance of serious failure, I'd put the OEM drive back on.

James, I think I'd go with my gut. You don't necessarily have a panel of experts here, myself included. (i.e. engineers) FWIW, I don't expect the FD will catastrophically fail without warning. It would wreck my enjoyment if I was thinking about it all the time.

Marty (in Germany)