'78 XS11 'bobber' project

[Jisatsu]

Hey everyone. Three or four years ago I some how ended up with a '78 XS11 for free. I took him as a project bike, but never had time to get started on it. Now that it's summer, out of school for a bit, and have sold my other bikes, I'm diggin in and trying to get it running. Two notes I'd like to state: I'm a 'poor' college kid and I'm not that mechanically knowledged. So bear with me cause I'm sure I'll do something that makes you shake your head. (I'm sure a few already are at the "bobber" project headline... I'm doing this old skool, just taking off what I don't need and that much is still on hold)

Anyways, I've cleaned the carbs up (as best as I know how (aka dare to)) and cleaned the gas tank out a couple times. Couple years ago I started working on this but the one carb kept leaking out the air filter and had to hold the throttle down a little to stay alive. It isn't leaking now and stays alive with just the choke, but I'm getting clear/white/gray smoke out of one side exhaust (it's 4-2) and that side is getting really hot and really fast (engine itself).

So at this point, I'm trying to figure out the next step(s) (other than an oil change). Any ideas on what issues I could be having? I'm hoping that it's just from sitting so long and the carbs needing to be synced/tuned, but when I tried again this morning, it died on it's own and the one side was hot even after only maybe 1-2 mins of being alive. I've been looking around on here and found a few helpful things, just want to see if there is anything else I should be worried about while I'm working on this. Thanks in advance for any help/input. Seems like a good group on here.

[BigRed]

White smoke usually means burning oil. It might just be oil that was put in there when it was stored, but I'd do a compression test before proceeding with anything else just to be sure that you're not wasting time tuning a pooched block.

Good luck!

[Jisatsu]

Thanks. When I first got it the guy said it had a blown head gasket (but had driven it for a couple months after ). We ran compressions when I cleaned the carbs the first time. They came out (from Left to Right) 160, 130, 130, 118 the first run and then 160, 150, 155, 145 the second time. I'll see if I can borrow my dad's compression tester again (or just buy one) and run them again. What type of numbers should I be looking for with it?

[crazy steve]

Your compression numbers are decent (the second set) but it wouldn't hurt to check again.

If the bike has been sitting, it no doubt needs the carbs gone through. The carbs on these will gum up/clog at the drop of a hat, and trying to run various 'fuel system cleaners' though while running rarely work. And if you don't know what maintainance has been done or not done, you really should go over the bike thoroughly before riding it to make sure it won't hurt or strand you. You can start here: http://www.xs11.com/faqs/16-what-to-...ed-xs1100.html

If you don't have a manual, you can download one here: http://www.ringler.us/family/mybike.html

Welcome!

[Jisatsu]

That's good to know on the compression test and carbs. Ironically the carbs were running better this time, without any real cleaning, than the first time I pulled them off.

I don't know what maintenance was done in the past, so I'm trying to slowly do little bits here and there. I'd just hate to drop money on all the normal stuff (i.e. battery, tires, fluids, etc) just to find out the engine needs more work than I can do/afford.

That is a good list of things, thanks for the link. I had run across it before and another one on the UK site. Thanks also for the manual site. I have a Clymer, but it's always nice to have more than one.

[Jisatsu]

time to put the time in this bike!

Another 1/2 year in the garage and no real progress. Sorry about the delay guys. Blew the head gasket in my truck (well, as far as I can tell, re-blew it from a cruddy job by one of the PO's) so I was tackling that project when I had time. I did run another set of compression tests on my XS but lost the notes I had. I think it was around 130 (+/- 5) on each cylinder. I ran the first test with plugs in, second with them out (not sure which way is 'proper'), about the same for both. I'm planning on running the tests again tomorrow. I've changed the engine/tans and middle/final drive oils. Have new plugs but waiting till I'm farther to change them (old ones are in decent condition, just a little Black).

I had it running a bit better than the last time, but still pretty rough. Choke has to be on or it dies. Had a mechanic stop by to look at it. found that #1 & 2 weren't really getting gas. Told me to try filling the tank up enough to make sure it was feeding on both sides. Also said the smoke I was getting was probably from the piston rings not setting right. The smoke did go away after 5-10 mins of running. I never added any more gas because the tank has rust in it so I was afraid of breaking loose some and didn't want to contaminate anything going through the bike or perfectly good gas (probably shouldn't have been running it at all).

Here's where my new question comes into play: The next day I found oil under the bike. It was coming down the exhaust pipe off #1. This pipe and #2 both remain cold when the bike is running (puts out cold air too). I'm wondering if the head gasket is leaking oil into the cylinder and that's why that side is staying cold and she's running rough (and why the PO was told that it had a blown head gasket). What do you guys think and what should I check for? I'm planning on pulling the carbs apart and doing a dip cleaning (when I figure out what is what on them) and also vinegaring my tank to work on the rust.

All that being said, what do you guys suggest for a 'battle plan'? Should I save up and get the gasket set off of Part'N'More to do the head gasket or clean carbs and tank then see how it runs? Also curious what I should get before tearing the carbs apart (i.e. repair kits, o-rings, gaskets, etc.)? Thanks guys!

[natemoen]

Clean the carbs before you go tearing the engine apart. You cannon get oil in the cylinders from a blown head gasket on these, there are no oil passages or anything going through the head gasket.

Your cold head pipes are because those cylinders are not firing, most likely because you haven't cleaned the carbs. So pull the carbs, get yourself some small brushes for cleaning out the little passageways, some compressed air (cans or compressor) and start cleaning the carbs.

As for parts for the carbs, as long as you do not break any of the needles or jets the only thing you might need is the float bowl gasket, but that is reusable if it doesn't break when removing the bowls.

[JasonRedbeard]

This all sounds like carb issues to me, too. The hot cylinders before were likely due to running too lean on those holes. Now they're not even getting enough fuel to fire. Since it's #1&2 not firing, you might want to check the petcock and make sure fuel is even making it out of the tank on that side, but more likely the pilot jets and/or the tiny jets that are pressed into the carb bowl will be clogged.

If you have rust in the tank, that needs to be taken care of first. Cleaning the carbs won't do much good if you just fill them with rust again afterwards. I hear the homebrew electrolysis method works pretty well, and for very little money.

[JasonRedbeard]

Also, I've been into my carbs and cleaned them twice and haven't had to replace anything. As long as the bowl gaskets come off in one piece, the rest can be cleaned thoroughly and reused. The cleanings and an oil change were all it took to get my 5-year-neglected mare running pretty nicely.

[Schming]

Another 1/2 year in the garage and no real progress. Sorry about the delay guys. Blew the head gasket in my truck (well, as far as I can tell, re-blew it from a cruddy job by one of the PO's) so I was tackling that project when I had time. I did run another set of compression tests on my XS but lost the notes I had. I think it was around 130 (+/- 5) on each cylinder. I ran the first test with plugs in, second with them out (not sure which way is 'proper'), about the same for both. I'm planning on running the tests again tomorrow. I've changed the engine/tans and middle/final drive oils. Have new plugs but waiting till I'm farther to change them (old ones are in decent condition, just a little Black).

I had it running a bit better than the last time, but still pretty rough. Choke has to be on or it dies. Had a mechanic stop by to look at it. found that #1 & 2 weren't really getting gas. Told me to try filling the tank up enough to make sure it was feeding on both sides. Also said the smoke I was getting was probably from the piston rings not setting right. The smoke did go away after 5-10 mins of running. I never added any more gas because the tank has rust in it so I was afraid of breaking loose some and didn't want to contaminate anything going through the bike or perfectly good gas (probably shouldn't have been running it at all).

Here's where my new question comes into play: The next day I found oil under the bike. It was coming down the exhaust pipe off #1. This pipe and #2 both remain cold when the bike is running (puts out cold air too). I'm wondering if the head gasket is leaking oil into the cylinder and that's why that side is staying cold and she's running rough (and why the PO was told that it had a blown head gasket). What do you guys think and what should I check for? I'm planning on pulling the carbs apart and doing a dip cleaning (when I figure out what is what on them) and also vinegaring my tank to work on the rust.

All that being said, what do you guys suggest for a 'battle plan'? Should I save up and get the gasket set off of Part'N'More to do the head gasket or clean carbs and tank then see how it runs? Also curious what I should get before tearing the carbs apart (i.e. repair kits, o-rings, gaskets, etc.)? Thanks guys!

I know you're on a budget but to get it running properly you'll have to clean the whole fuel delivery system, but if you just want to see if it runs til you get time or funds together you can try a few things.

Sounds like, from the info given your head gasket is good and 1&2 are getting fuel but no spark. What you may think is oil maybe fuel darkened from the carbon in the exhaust header pipe draining out of 1.

With that said, engine off, remove the fuel lines on each petcock and turn the valves, one at a time to prime to see if fuel flows freely. If that checks out try the new plugs and see if it runs on all 4 cylinders.

If that works then it would be best to get the rust in the tank taken care of and theres a number of ways to do that and most are budget friendly.

Now for the carbs there are more posts and tech info on here it'll make your head spin but don't be intimidated by them they really aren't that difficult and when you get them right it'll be worth the patience and thoroughness you give them.

If the engine doesn't fire on all 4 cyls. with the new plugs and fuel flowing freely from both petcocks it still maybe fuel related (carbs) or you'll have to start looking into the electrical and again a lot of info also.

[fredintoon]

Hi Casey,
clean the carbs clean the carbs clean the carbs clean the carbs clean the carbs clean the carbs as many times as needed.
Strip them down completely to the last little screw except DON'T disturb the butterflys, they don't usually need it and are a stone bitch to R&R.
Work on the carbs inside of a big ol' cafeteria tray so the parts don't get lost as easy.
Diagnosis:-
if 1 & 4 or 2 & 3 act up it's most likely ignition.
If 1 & 2 or 3 & 4 or any single cylinder acts up, it's most likely fuel.

[TopCatGr58]

Surprised that folks didn't mention this especially after you said

I'm planning on pulling the carbs apart and doing a dip cleaning

?!

You do NOT want to soak them an any caustic carb cleaning DIP!!! That's a sure fire way of destroying your butterfly shaft seals!

You can dip the individual metal parts you remove from the carb, ie. jets, emulsion tubes, floats, etc., but not the whole carb bodies!! Spray cleaner and compressed air is used for that. Since you're on a budget you probably won't have access to an ultrasound machine, etc., so the other exotic non-caustic cleaners/soaks are probably not an option.

Also, did you have the THROTTLE WIDE OPEN with your comp test? That or even with the carbs off. But they sound all similar, and until you get it running and can put several hundred miles on it to help reseat the rings and such, then you don't need to worry or focus too much on the comp levels at this time.

As stated, clean the fuel delivery system, install inline fuel filters, then when you are ready to test fire it...use the NEW PLUGS. The old black ones are now probably oil/fuel fouled, you want a fresh set for the best chance of getting it firing on all four!

T.C.

[fredintoon]

- - - You do NOT want to soak them an any caustic carb cleaning DIP!!! That's a sure fire way of destroying your butterfly shaft seals! - - -

Hi TC,
caustic? As in strong alkaline solution? Soak those aluminum carbs in that and they will dissolve. All that will be left is the steel screws. That and the rubber bits. They'll be fine.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Fred,

Thanks, I was using the term "loosely", referring to the very strong(petroleum based) DIP style carb cleaning solutions that can be bought at most local auto parts stores, that ARE deleterious to Rubber parts.

Folks have reported mixed results with MILD alkaline type cleaners ie. Simply green or such, but I am very aware of the incompatibility of such cleaners and Aluminum. I guess I need to look up the definition of CAUSTIC?

Now where is that Spell Check??
T.C.

[Jisatsu]

Clean the carbs before you go tearing the engine apart. You cannon get oil in the cylinders from a blown head gasket on these, there are no oil passages or anything going through the head gasket.

As for parts for the carbs, as long as you do not break any of the needles or jets the only thing you might need is the float bowl gasket, but that is reusable if it doesn't break when removing the bowls.

Thanks Nate, that's really good to know. I'm really new to mechanics (or at least the finer details of it) and am going off a VERY basic understanding of how things works. Only experience with a head gasket so far was on my truck (and hoping that will be my last for several years).

I was hoping that I could reuse most (or all) of the gaskets on the carbs as long as I was careful taking them off (thanks to ALL the poster who mentioned that one)

Since it's #1&2 not firing, you might want to check the petcock and make sure fuel is even making it out of the tank on that side, but more likely the pilot jets and/or the tiny jets that are pressed into the carb bowl will be clogged.

If you have rust in the tank, that needs to be taken care of first. Cleaning the carbs won't do much good if you just fill them with rust again afterwards. I hear the homebrew electrolysis method works pretty well, and for very little money.

Thanks Jason, I have been a little suspicious of the petcocks. Hoping to not have to replace/rebuild them, but if it needs to be done, well it'll be done. I'll give that a shot when I'm draining the tank to start on the rust issue. I bought almost a full tanks worth of vinegar I was going to try first... Though the home-brew electrolysis is gaining appeal in my eyes.

but to get it running properly you'll have to clean the whole fuel delivery system,

Sounds like, from the info given your head gasket is good and 1&2 are getting fuel but no spark. What you may think is oil maybe fuel darkened from the carbon in the exhaust header pipe draining out of 1.

You, my good sir, are brilliant. I'm going to go check the puddle spots I found again... but after reading that I remembered that it didn't really act like oil. It was thicker like oil, but it wiped up off the cement better and left a dark spot from being wet more than from staining.

I've been debating if I'll be attempting (after the carbs and tank are clean) to replace a lot of the fuel and air hoses (mainly since I'm doing all the air hoses on my truck as well soon).

Strip them down completely to the last little screw except DON'T disturb the butterflys, they don't usually need it and are a stone bitch to R&R.
Work on the carbs inside of a big ol' cafeteria tray so the parts don't get lost as easy.
Diagnosis:-
if 1 & 4 or 2 & 3 act up it's most likely ignition.
If 1 & 2 or 3 & 4 or any single cylinder acts up, it's most likely fuel.

Thanks Fred. I've been looking around trying to figure out what piece is what, if it's removable, and how it's re-installed so that I can strip the carbs down fully. Also good to see the pattern of how this all seems to be fuel related.

You do NOT want to soak them an any caustic carb cleaning DIP!!! That's a sure fire way of destroying your butterfly shaft seals!

You can dip the individual metal parts you remove from the carb, ie. jets, emulsion tubes, floats, etc., but not the whole carb bodies!! Spray cleaner and compressed air is used for that.

Also, did you have the THROTTLE WIDE OPEN with your comp test? That or even with the carbs off. But they sound all similar, and until you get it running and can put several hundred miles on it to help reseat the rings and such, then you don't need to worry or focus too much on the comp levels at this time.

As stated, clean the fuel delivery system, install inline fuel filters, then when you are ready to test fire it...use the NEW PLUGS. The old black ones are now probably oil/fuel fouled, you want a fresh set for the best chance of getting it firing on all four!
T.C.

Thanks T.C.! I was planning on stripping the carbs down to metal only parts and then dipping, but if the butterflies are hard to remove and they have destroyable seals, then I guess it'll be spray cleaner and air for the bodies and dip for the separable metal pieces.... or I'll stick with the spray since I don't have any dip in the garage.

I didn't even think about a Wide Open Throttle as an option for the test >< I'm not sure what the proper procedure is for compression tests (to be fully honest).

And fair deal on the fuel system. I put new inline fuel filters in a year ago. They haven't had much go through them but I think they're cheap enough I could replace them again if they look dirty/junked up. I'll toss the new plugs in after the tank and carbs are clean too. Probably save up for new caps/wires if they aren't too expensive (haven't looked for them yet)

Thanks everyone. I guess I'll drain the tank, check the petcocks, let the vinegar soak (though not sure how long this should be and if I should remove the petcocks or not), and tear apart the carbs then see how things go. Probably won't have time until next weekend though :/

I should also ask (and have stated earlier), the bike had K&N pod filters installed on it (going to be cleaned while I'm doing everything else) and straight pipes welded on... Am I going to need to re-jet to get her to run smoothly or will stock needles get by okay? I'd rather not re-jet if I don't have to. (I don't know much about this area other than it controls fuel delivery to the fuel/air mixture.) I found a site that sold the #3 jet kit for later XS models, but not for mine... Any thoughts/input welcome.