I saved an XS1100

[Retroben]

Thanks largely to the advice on this forum, I rode this bike today Needs a tune-up, lunges and misses at about 2500 rpm, skips into second no matter what, but it sure does go fast, and stops and handles nice. I feel victorious. And totally screwed. Allow me to explain.

I posted about this bike when I started this project. I thought I was going to be changing fluids and filters, in exchange for which I would earn the right to ride this bike over the summer. The owner agreed to pay for all parts and supplies. He is my buddy and I believe we both thought this would be a fair deal. I warned him up front that it might take me a while, because this is only the second bike I've ever worked on.

But when I rode it home I suspected things weren't all that simple. Scary ride. Now a sane man would have told the guy to come and get his bike. Not me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...but if it is broke, I can't help myself.

I read through the owner's Clymer (never used), asked him a few questions, and realized that outside of changing the engine oil and filter and the plugs, zero other maintenance was done on this bike in the last 30 years. Amazing it rode at all. I decided to just go through the periodic maintenance checklist. Every bearing was full of soapy earwax instead of grease, some were frozen solid. All rubber boots were trash. So I went through, cleaned and repacked where appropriate, replaced as necessary.


Here's everything I did (plus the hours spent finding all the parts on the web):

Replace front tire (local shop did the mount & balance)
Replace front wheel bearings, clean & repack speedo hub
Replace speedo cable
Replace fork seals, clean forks
Clean, purge front calipers, clean pads, lube, reassemble
Rebuild front master cylinder & bleed system
Replace steering head bearings
Replace speedometer
Change engine oil & filter
Adjust cam chain tensioner, fix oil leak (replace o-ring)
Adjust clutch, replace cable return spring
Clean air intake and replace air filter
Change middle drive oil
Remove/clean/repack/adjust swingarm bearings
Clean & lube driveshaft, replace boot
Change final drive oil, clean & lube final drive
Service rear wheel/hub (clean & repack bearings, splines)
Clean, purge rear caliper, replace pads
Purge rear master cylinder, replace rubber boot, bleed system, adjust pedal
Replace rear tire (local shop did the mount & balance)
Remount and rewire rear turn signals
And probably some other stuff I forgot.

Now I ask your judgment, fellow XSers (pretentious of me I know, I probably have not earned the title, but I did just save one of these from the scrapheap, and probably the owner from a baaaad ride).

I am not going to charge the guy. But roughly how much $$$ worth of work did I do? $300? $500? $1000? I don't rightly know, because everything takes me so long, and I can't really guarantee my work...but I was confident enough to take the test drive

The master cylinder in these pics was an attempt at a temp. swap. Rebuilt original now in place.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...00SFLHview.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...00SFRHview.jpg

[wingnut]

Its yours now......

Considering that if you took it to the shop, what you have done would have cost way over 1K I'd say you give him a hundred and he gives you a signed title. You are still going to have to pull the carb rack and clean them

[WMarshy]

I second that! I can't even imagine what it would cost at a shop with labor costs up around $65 per hour, you do the math! Even if it took a real shop half the amount of time it took you I think the bill would still be about $1000. Then throw in cost for breaking down the carbs and cleaning them, your talking $1400! Give your buddy a case of beer and $50 and try to get a signed title. GL

[cywelchjr]

I think the only thing that's left is cleaning the carbs and checking the pickup wires. The carb cleaning MIGHT be able to be skipped by running a half can of seafoam through a tank of fresh gas through the carbs since it's running at all that MIGHT be enough to let it clear the rest out, it's amazing what it can do if it can get in there at all. But for the rest that's between you and your buddy but as other's have said, shop work you've saved him something on the range of 1000 to 1500 at least.

[Retroben]

But wait, there's more...

No way am I getting into the carbs. Another time, another bike, maybe. I dumped a few ounces of SeaFoam in the tank and now we hope for the best.
I also replaced the broken #4 spark plug cap, pulled and inspected plugs, did a compression check. Have to admit I don't even know how to do that for sure...Bought a good compression tester used for $10...If i did it right, I think I ended up with readings of 130-145-145-140. Bad?
One of the fork seals I replaced is still leaking a bit (already know why, have the seal, *just* have to replace it again). And the owner asked me when I'm going to get around to that! Er, I have a job and family...
Anyway, lessons learned, I guess.

[XSive Okie]

The numbers you got for compression test indicate you did it right. And they aren't bad, 90 and below is pretty bad. I agree with every one above, see about becoming the new owner of this bike, when running properly, they are fast and fun!

[Retroben]

He did buy the parts

In fairness, I have to say the owner put in about $450 in tires, parts and fluids.
But then he bought a backrest/rack setup from some u/i XS1100 model off the fleabay for $165, in perfect shape, without any way to mount it

Meanwhile last weekend I really wanted to ride. I was waiting for the master cylinder rebuild kit I ordered from the local repair/salvage shop (same price as on line). I asked the guy if he had a working master, I figured I could mount one, rebuild the other one and then sell the extra. For $75 the guy gave me a bad MC off an XS and said it "worked on the bike he took it off of". Jerk. It was toast, so rotten that one of the studs broke when I tried to gently open the reservoir! I took it back and he said the best he could do is give me another working master off a bike...that's the square one you see in the pics there. Took it home and opened it up...fully of totally gelled goo. Took it back to him. He said all he could do was clean it for me. He handed it back to me 15 minutes later, clean...but I think he used solvent! The whole thing was kinda greasy and kerosene smelly when he handed it back. Took it home, cleaned it some more, blew out the nooks and crannies with compressed air, bled through some fluid, and still never could get that one to build pressure. Tried to take it back, figured maybe he'd at least give me store credit I could use to have him balance the carbs... but no, he's adamant that the problem with that crappy used master is ME not knowing how to bleed brakes! No money back! So I'm out $75 cash on top of all the time. At least I did successfully rebuild the original master and had full pressure after 10 minutes of bleeding, bled both calipers 2 more times after the bubbles were gone.

[Shacknasty]

There are two holes in the M/C that need cleaning. One is very small and is usually the cause of M/C probs. You probably already knew this.

No pics?

[Retroben]

There are two holes in the M/C that need cleaning. One is very small and is usually the cause of M/C probs. You probably already knew this.

No pics?

Cleaning the spooge hole was one of the first things I did. I rebuilt the front master because it looked dirty and corroded even on the outside. Glad I did, too. The plunger was starting to deteriorate.

No pics of the new master. It's just the stock unit. Looks nicer on the inside than the outside now.

[Rasputin]

Zero

Although your efforts were heroic and commendable, (even may have saved the owners bacon) your efforts are worth nothing! Sorry to rain on the parade but unless you made previous arrangements you opted to do it for free from the git go. Most of the knowledge you have utilized did not cost you anything but time. The parts were paid for.

Because you said "everything takes me so long, and I can't really guarantee my work" then makes it either a hobby or labor of love. Neither one are worth a crap in real life. I often have friends or neighbors do things for me and I do for them. It is never a scorecard thing we do because we are able.

I work on fellow XSers bikes and help them out when I can basically for free. The occasional case of Beer excluded. I supply what knowledge I have, and tools for the price of knowing, I have helped.

Long story short if you want to put a price on your achievements it can be done but why? I worked on a friends bike today. We synched the carbs, checked the timing, replaced the CCT with a VMax from my stock, installed a different coil from my stock (that he re-soldered wires too). The tank on his bike came from my parts and he made it look GREAT after spending the money to have it painted and striped. We spent time with my grinder,shop, manuals, synch tool and my timing light and jacks etc. You name and I had a part in it.

Do I expect payment or anything from my efforts? Hell Yes I do! Monetarily I give a ****! But I know he will appreciate what I have done and one day when I need advice or a hand with something he will return the favour.

These old bikes are something I love to work on and I have a bucket load of parts sitting around. If someone wants or needs some of them, they are available for shipping, in most cases.

So simply enjoy your new found knowledge and friends and relax with a cold beer secure in the knowledge that you have made the world a better place by doing what you have. Who knows the owner may tire of it quickly and give it to you. It is not like he has enough interest to fix it himself...lol.

[Retroben]

That wasn't the point

Although your efforts were heroic and commendable, (even may have saved the owners bacon) your efforts are worth nothing! Sorry to rain on the parade but unless you made previous arrangements you opted to do it for free from the git go. Most of the knowledge you have utilized did not cost you anything but time. The parts were paid for.

Because you said "everything takes me so long, and I can't really guarantee my work" then makes it either a hobby or labor of love. Neither one are worth a crap in real life. I often have friends or neighbors do things for me and I do for them. It is never a scorecard thing we do because we are able.

I work on fellow XSers bikes and help them out when I can basically for free. The occasional case of Beer excluded. I supply what knowledge I have, and tools for the price of knowing, I have helped.

Long story short if you want to put a price on your achievements it can be done but why? I worked on a friends bike today. We synched the carbs, checked the timing, replaced the CCT with a VMax from my stock, installed a different coil from my stock (that he re-soldered wires too). The tank on his bike came from my parts and he made it look GREAT after spending the money to have it painted and striped. We spent time with my grinder,shop, manuals, synch tool and my timing light and jacks etc. You name and I had a part in it.

Do I expect payment or anything from my efforts? Hell Yes I do! Monetarily I give a ****! But I know he will appreciate what I have done and one day when I need advice or a hand with something he will return the favour.

These old bikes are something I love to work on and I have a bucket load of parts sitting around. If someone wants or needs some of them, they are available for shipping, in most cases.

So simply enjoy your new found knowledge and friends and relax with a cold beer secure in the knowledge that you have made the world a better place by doing what you have. Who knows the owner may tire of it quickly and give it to you. It is not like he has enough interest to fix it himself...lol.

Apparently I came across sounding like an aggrieved mercenary. I just wanted an idea of how much my work so far was worth on the market. I think that's quantifiable, and I just wanted to mention it to the owner. Also, it will help me make a decision about whether and how much to pay if I'm ever offered a bike in this condition. If I chose to give that work away, that is indeed my problem, eh?

If I didn't live primarily by the golden rule, I wouldn't have undertaken this...yes, part hobby, part labor of love. But if I did expect anything, at least it would have been a heartfelt thanks, which I did not get. And maybe an offer to cover my $75 master cylinder mistake with the shyster over at the cycle store. Promises of hanging out together wrenching and drinking beer turned into one time he came over with a 12-pack and started cleaning the chrome with steel wool and getting the dust in the bearings I just repacked. And it seems he now expects me to be real enthusiastic about having earned the right to ride a bike that still needs work, perhaps because he expects me to finish it, teach myself to do carbs then do his carbs. Sorry, I just think I have tired of this menage-a-trois, him and me and the bike. Not going to work out. She's really not my kind of girl anyway. I like 'em a little smaller, a little weaker, and a little cuter.

[oldyam80sg]

Let me reply-Last year i went out with a woman who rode and she had a Honda that didn't start.She asked me to look at it and i told her it wouldn't be cheap to fix.She obviously thought that i should do this as a no fee favor.The bike had some major issues and needed carb work as well as a battery.You will get people out there who have no clue about time and labor fees.I told her parts,my time, and labor would cost no matter if i did the work or she took it to a shop-no one does things for free.I did some work on the bike but money started to become an issue and i had no choice but to abandon this project.We broke up shortly after that and the bike continues to sit uncovered in her backyard.

[DGXSER]

An age old lesson in life, money and friendship are mortal enemies. Mixing the two never ends well.

As to your arrangement, if I read it correctly, you wanted to ride the bike for the summer, he said you fix it and you can ride it, he will pay for all the parts. Now it sounds like the expectation was you HELP HIM fix it and you can ride it. Honestly, from what you said, he probably would only have slowed you down rather than help you out if he had been there more often.

As to a price tag, well, add up the hours you spent, multiply that by about $15 an hour for unskilled and un educated labor since you admittedly had no real set idea what you were doing , but muddled through it and learned alot. Now, take the bike out for a nice ride, feel the power under your control, feel the wind in your face, on your body, and the joy in your mind and spirit. Think that you now have access to that for the rest of the summer at least. Put a price tag on that if you can. Deduct your labor cost from the value of that riding experience, and that is about what you owe him. To have that experience wihtout his bike, you would have had to buy one, and either spent the money to have one ride ready, or spent the same amount of your time plus your money on the parts.

I completely understand what you have been through on this one. I recently completed rebuilding an XS11 that sat in a barn for three years, even had the barn painted around her with no cover or anything so the overspray was really nice!! Everytime you try to fix one thing, you find another that is fubared. It just is how this stuff goes. And really, there is still the second gear issue to be fixed, and the carbs will need to be cleaned, tuned, and synched for it to truly run right. And then you will get a month or two of riding in before soemthing else goes wrong.

[Retroben]

An age old lesson in life, money and friendship are mortal enemies. Mixing the two never ends well.

As to your arrangement, if I read it correctly, you wanted to ride the bike for the summer, he said you fix it and you can ride it, he will pay for all the parts. Now it sounds like the expectation was you HELP HIM fix it and you can ride it. Honestly, from what you said, he probably would only have slowed you down rather than help you out if he had been there more often.

As to a price tag, well, add up the hours you spent, multiply that by about $15 an hour for unskilled and un educated labor since you admittedly had no real set idea what you were doing , but muddled through it and learned alot. Now, take the bike out for a nice ride, feel the power under your control, feel the wind in your face, on your body, and the joy in your mind and spirit. Think that you now have access to that for the rest of the summer at least. Put a price tag on that if you can. Deduct your labor cost from the value of that riding experience, and that is about what you owe him. To have that experience wihtout his bike, you would have had to buy one, and either spent the money to have one ride ready, or spent the same amount of your time plus your money on the parts.

I completely understand what you have been through on this one. I recently completed rebuilding an XS11 that sat in a barn for three years, even had the barn painted around her with no cover or anything so the overspray was really nice!! Everytime you try to fix one thing, you find another that is fubared. It just is how this stuff goes. And really, there is still the second gear issue to be fixed, and the carbs will need to be cleaned, tuned, and synched for it to truly run right. And then you will get a month or two of riding in before soemthing else goes wrong.

Actually I guess my whole problem here is after spending a month of my precious spare time, I expected the owner to act as happy as I would have if somebody had done this for me.

I don't have the world's greatest tool collection or a proper shop, and admittedly I'm slow. But I do have most of what I need, I understand basic mechanics, and I'm conscientious enough to make sure everything's right before sending my buddy out on a vehicle I just wrenched on. Put a price tag on that.

Also, this all happened in my garage, using my tools. And I had to clean up all the mess, which I expected, but if you promise to help out and you don't know which direction to turn a nut, pushing a broom is a good way to pass the time. And maybe learn something, if you give a s**t.

As to unskilled and uneducated labor, you can't get somebody to unload trucks in this part of California for $15 an hour. And wrenching, while not rocket science, is not ditch-digging -- it is a skill, which involves basic ground rules (like safety first), then figuring out what you do know and what you don't, and filling in the blanks, in this case greatly helped by the truly knowledgeable and kindly riders on this forum!

Thanks, everybody, I would have never got through this without you!
Ben

[crazy steve]

Actually I guess my whole problem here is after spending a month of my precious spare time, I expected the owner to act as happy as I would have if somebody had done this for me.

Heh heh.... Grasshopper, you have learned a valuable lesson....

The first thing to know is most people who are looking for this kind of deal are generally trying to take advantage of you. They do know that it will cost real money to have this done 'professionally', but also rarely have a clue as to what's really involved, assuming that somehow the pros are 'screwing' them. There are the exceptions to this rule, but unfortunately you usually won't discover who they are until after the fact.

I'm known as the neighborhood mechanic/electrician (I'm a retired sparky), as pretty much everybody has seen me working on bikes/cars at one time or another. I've been approached by many of my neighbors wanting to know if I would work on something of theirs. Some I've helped multiple times, some only got one shot. The trick is to clearly spell out what you expect out of this exchange. The ones that I've helped more than once understood this and delivered. I know this sounds a bit mercenary, but if the other person has a sense of fair play, they'll understand. I never go into these deals 'expecting' anything in return, but it's always a pleasure when it works out. I look at it as depositing into a 'favors' bank, and it has worked out with some when I needed to make a 'withdrawal'...

If you offer your services, then it's a different kettle of fish. Unless you clearly spell out what you expect in return, don't expect anything except whatever personal sense of accomplishment you may get.

I'll help most anybody, but don't expect me to be a sucker either....