energy crisis

[Pat Kelly]

I had a sneaking suspicion that my charging system was not "up to snuff". I added a stereo to the bike and it cuts out when I'm at idle. It doesn't seem that a standard car stereo would be drawing that much power. I added a voltmeter into my dash and it reads quite low. I understand that a $15 Kragen meter might not be real accurate but it's reading 10 volts at idle and tops out right at 12 volts at 4,500 RPM. Voltage drops to an alarming 8 volts (intermittently) with the turn signals blinking.
The battery is almost 3 years old now. It is full of water / electrolyte. I've replaced the fuseblock with individual spade-type fuses. I really haven't gone through the rest of the wiring harness / connectors yet.
I realize that I have added a few lights that contribute to the problem ... the 2 amber running lights in the Pacifico fairing, the 2 red running lights on the trunk (same thing as the ambers), I replaced the stock 1157 bulbs in the tail / brake light with (non flashing) LED bulbs which I feel helps the situation (no voltage drop when brakelight comes on), rear turn signals converted to 1157 running / turn lights (LED bulbs wouldn't flash when I tried them here), headlight is H4 80 /100 watt, and eight 1/4" accent lights scattered around the bike (looks really cool ). I swapped the 12K volt coils with Dyna 45K volt units (not sure that makes any difference). I'm considering replacing the small incadecent running lights with LED lights os the same size (15 LEDs in a 3 1/4" x 1 1/5" panel) which might draw less current. Also, would bypassing the self cancelling feature of the turn signals affect anything? How about getting rid of the reserve lighting unit, does that unit suck electricity?
It would be nice if someone would find a stator with a lot more winding off another model bike that would work on our bikes. Guess that would be too easy and take all the fun out of tinkering with these great bikes.
Tomorrow I'll test my regulator and rectifyer and consider cleaning connectors. All suggestions will be welcomed with open mind.
Thanks guys and guyettes

[TopCatGr58]

Bets on Regulator

Hey there Pat,

My bets are on the Regulator being fried. I had also added a second set of tail lights(an actual second "Special" brake assembly running 2 1157's, and then had also added a second pair of round running/tail lights also with 1157's, which would now equal the amount you're running with your front and rear running lights. I was using stock 55/65 headlight, and didn't have any other side running lights, and my regulator fried!!!! Replaced it and removed the second pair of round tail lights, and it's been fine since. Since our stator is brushless, it's more rare for them to go bad vs. the regulator.

I, too, am planning on replacing my tail lights with LED, and also my turn signals....per SKids, you need to use an electronic flasher instead of the thermal one....but will loose self cancelling, but it should then allow use of LED's for turn signals. I also plan on adding LED side marker lights where the reflectors are on the frame near the triple tree, LED's will greatly reduce the amperage draw.

Your charging system should be putting out closer to 14 volts at the 4,500+ rpm range, needs to have enough voltage to push against the 12V of the battery to charge it, so if you're only seeing 12, then something ain't right!!! Once you get your charging system back in order, your car stereo should work OKAY!?
Good luck.
T.C.
T.C.

[Ken Talbot]

Start all the way back at the battery, Pat, and work your way methodically through every connector you can find.

I had a very interesting experience while I as working out gremlins on SWMBO's 'H a while back. For some reason, I had the left sidecover off and I was looking in that general direction when I hit the starter button. That sucker shot a good quarter inch arc from the head of the ground wire attaching screw over to the frame! I removed the screw and cleaned up the terminal on the end of the cable and the frame attachment point. When I put it back together, the arc was gone and it started a whole lot better.

Your problem could be as simple as one dirty connector in a critcial spot, but you won't know till you've spent the time to check it all out.

[Redbaron]

Sounds more to me like you have overloaded your electrical system, these machines only have a stator not an alternator. They were never designed to do more than run the bike and "trickle" charge the battery.
1. Headlight should be no more than 55/60 watt, amperage is the real problem, been there done that, no joy. Bike kept dying low voltage.
2. I have a Vetter trunk with four lights- 1157's I can only use these at highway speeds as they pull a lot of amps.
3. My voltage meter reads a touch over 12 at idle and up to 14 at 4 to 5K rpms.When you hooked yours up did you loop to the battery or pick up existing wiring. If looped I suggest you clean the connections in the charging circuit asap. Simple- one plug located behind the fuse box, all white wires, unplug and use a soft bristle wire brush, similar to what swmbo would use in the kitchen, clean both sides and check your meter again.
4. this was my last resort:
disconnect all accessory lighting- note charging condition
if good; connect accessories in the most desired order- again note charging condition
add accessories until charging system is marginal- Stop here
Trial and error could net the most accessories available or choose the most desired

I would drop the headlight to factory spec first and then try accessories. You'll find that many of us have tried, without success, to update our lighting and accessory capabilities. We would all be interested in any combination you arrive at that will function within our constraints. BEST OF LUCK

[Pat Kelly]

At least, despite the readings, the bike starts quite easily...first time, every time (until I post this I'm sure).
For now I'll not worry about the stereo. I feel I do need the running lights as I ride to work everyday. With our recent rain it can be quite foggy at 5 AM, sometimes less than 100' visability.
I think i'll replace my 3 year old battery and clean every connection. I'm going to replace both battery cables. I'm also going to try to replace as many incadesent bulbs with LED as I can. The eight LED accent lights are in a toggle switch so they're not on all the time, though I see no difference on the volt meter with them running.
Seems the only thing I'm having a problem with is the stereo. Maybe I will just remove it and cover the holes.

[skids]

You do have a good analysis of the headlight wattage as being a possible problem. Although I don't agree with your assessment of the xs11 not having an alternator, the end result is the same...DC generation after rectification. I am going to have to reduce the wattage in one of my bikes headlights because it just can't keep up at low RPMs.

Originally posted by Redbaron

1. Headlight should be no more than 55/60 watt, amperage is the real problem, been there done that, no joy. Bike kept dying low voltage.

[sixtysix]

The XS11 basically has 8 amps of extra power at speed that you can use. The headlight alone is taking up 2/3 of them. Add up the wattages of the other stuff you have on the bike and I think you are way over (even at speed). At idle you are killing it. You could wire all the aux stuff into a relay and turn it off in town or something? If it was me I would go ahead and do what you said and switch stuff over to LED's if possible. Then I would switch the headlight back to stock if you really gotta have a radio. I have found that the brighter bulbs don't really make that much difference, especially on an old system that lots of connections.

[Pat Kelly]

Todays project it to rummage through my XSive stuff to find that 60/55 w bulb. I've found three 100/80's so far....lol.
I used the 80/100 in my 68 Ford pick-up. Found them to burn out my headlight switch every 6 mos. and I could only use high beam for 10 seconds or so. Now I run one H4 bulb and one halogen sealed beam. No problems in 9 years.

[Pat Kelly]

Well this got interesting.
I did find and swap out my 100/80 watt bulb for the 60/55 bulb.
Since installing the voltmeter (Saturday afternoon) I've started and revved the bike and noticed the low charging rate, starting this post, and changing the headlight bulb.

Today was the first time I had the bike on the road since the voltmeter and I found something interesting..... Revving the engine in the driveway (up to 6,000 RPM) resulted in a max of 12 volts. Riding the bike on the street resulted in 14 volts at or above 2500 RPM. Why would the bike charge in gear but not in neutural? I know the neutural light isn't that bright .

I still have an alarming voltage drop with the turn signals, below 10 volts as the lights flash. Does the self-cancelling unit draw juice? Would by-passing it make any difference?

[ratbyk]

Signals

Pat, solution; stop using your signal lights except in special circumstances. (like in front of a police car) Simply do hand/arm signals just like the evperienced HD riders. They seem to get along well in traffic just using arm gestures with authority.
Tee Hee!
Ken/Sooke
78E Ratbyk
82 FT500 "lilRat"

[nashville_bill]

Pat,

IMHO, you should charge your battery and then have it checked. It seems posible that it would take a while to get the battery charged up to 14 volts and if it is weak, any drain on the system would have a drastic affect on the voltage. If the battery is good, it doesn't seem posible that the turn signals could drop the battery voltage to 8 volts. Will the ignition circuit even work at 8 volts?

Good luck!

[Pat Kelly]

I do also suspect the accuracy of the 'inexpensive' voltmeter I bought. It will be replaced with a higher quality unit before too long.

Fortunately I've had no problems other than with the stereo. Bike runs super great. Even with the Pacifico and lowers it'll carry the front wheel in the air, just now I need a little clutch to do it. Nekkid it just took a snap of the throttle.

Next payday the (almost) three year old battery gets replaced.

Thanks guys ....

[kf4anm]

3 YR batt

pitch that 3 year old battery and start fresh. then evaluate your charging system. wet cycle batteries do not weather the years as well as larger lead acids do. a side note once you have your charging system and battery straightened out you might consider adding a supplimental battery to help with your lights and stereo. a nice compact 12v 5ah or 7.5ah tucked in a pocket somewhere wired in parrallel with your main batt should help. it will give a little added capacity as well as reserve time.

[Pat Kelly]

I was considering a Batt/Cap for the stereo. $150 is a bit steep tho

[kf4anm]

cap

your right unless your gonna drop a 1k amp in the saddlebag a capacitor wouldn't be pratical. a small sla with an isolator and a couple inline fuses for safety and you would be set.