Vision 550 CCT install tips

[Smash]

Thanks to CaptonZap's help we (well Karla and CZ) got the CCT off a 550 Vision installed on Saturday.

Please note two things if you're going to use the CCT off a 550 vision:

1. You will need to file the upper bolt hole, it is a little too high
2. You will need to make your own gasket. We used thin, non-corrugated cardboard like a cereal box and high temp RTV and it doesn't leak

Hope that helps folks out!

[CatatonicBug]

You shouldn't need a gasket at all. Just RTV should do the job just fine, just like all the other gaskets on the bike. (Except the Head gasket, Float bowl gaskets and the exhaust gaskets).

[Smash]

Well, we over did it then! LOL. No leaking.

[motoman]

Didn't overdo Smash! Done good for insurance.......C.Bugs just........nevermind. As we talked, just double check those front wheel bearings for lube. Know you told me they rotated smootly when you had front wheel off. If you have or get one of the coned two piece wheel bearing packers from NAPA(not expensive at all) have or get a grease gun and put a new tube of red Super-Sta lube in it, you can repack those bearings WITH the lip seal left on them! Did that with my old bearings when I put new ones in. Worked superbly and just stuck them back in the boxes the new bearings came in. They come out of hub as a unit fairly easy with a drift punch. Inside of hub has a couple casting places opposite each other so you can drive them out with a drift punch. Just have to re position the spacer that'll rattle around in there before putting in the oppisite side bearing. You'll see how that woks once you have the wheel off. Axle tightening pulls those inner races tightly against spacer causing outer race and wheel to rotate together. Other than that sounds like your finially on a "roll". Just take your time, you two are doin a fine job so far.........CZ, thanks for jumpin in there for me and helpin' them out when I was "down" and wasn't able to accomodate!

[CatatonicBug]

Didn't overdo Smash! Done good for insurance.......C.Bugs just........nevermind.

I'm what? Just passing along knowledge.

Actually, adding a gasket is asking for trouble. Gaskets are an inherent weak seal, since they are just layered paper. Oil can seep through the paper. No sense in using them if you don't really need them.

[motoman]

Actually, adding a gasket is asking for trouble. Gaskets are an inherent weak seal, since they are just layered paper./////Like I said.........never mind.

[CaptonZap]

Motoman, let me explain.
When we first put it in, with the original gasket, and a thin smear of silicone, it leaked. When we took it off, and looked at the seating area, it was obvious that the seat on the block and the seat on the CCT did not coincide.
So we peeled the gasket off, and looked at the seating area of the CCT. There was a small shoulder around the column that was 10-15 thousand taller than the machined surface of the gasket area. When placed into the hole on the block, without anything on the mating surfaces, you could feel that the two did not mate well enough to be, in my estimation, a good sealing surface.
Now, I appreciate the fact that silicone makes a good seal, but in my world, the thickness of the silicone should be no more than a few thousandths thick. It is there to fill in irregularities of the mating surfaces. People who count on a sixteenth inch of silicone to seal something are, in my book, in the same group of people referred to as PO's.
Which is what they do to subsequent mechanics who have to work on that item.
On top of that, if you use that thick of a glob to seal things, you run the risk of having a glob get inside, coming loose, and getting in small oil passages with deleterious effects. Ask the pro racers how they feel about silicone gasket making. It can be done, but there is an art to it, and most shade tree mechanics lack the finesse to do it right.
Or maybe their eyesight is not up to the job. Either way, silicone is a last resort in my mechanic'an.
Besides, Smash and Karla now know how to make gaskets with common household stuff. And that is, in my book, and as they say, priceless. CZ

[BA80]

Well yes....yes you are priceless Jerry.

I do have to disagree on the silicone getting from the crank case to the oil galleys and cloging them though. It would first have to pass through the oil pickup screen, which probably wouldn't happen but enough of it could clog the screen.

But if a piece small enough to make it through did make it the next obstical would be the oil pump impellers, a formidable silicone grinder.

What made it through there would have to make it's way through the pores in the oil filter, which by the way are measured in microns.

I seriously doubt that something measured in microns would clog anything past that.

IMHO

[motoman]

CZ, figured something like that had to be going on to do what you did. Run into the same thing a time or two with the Venture/V-Max tensioner(follow along here Bug....you MAY learn something). Casting on that front side is cleaned up a bit better on some than others, and to the extent a person THINKS adjuster is pulled up tight, but really isn't. Agree TOTALLY on the use of silicone, as thin a film as you can get, and smooth. Is an art just knowing when, where and how much, can vary a bit depending on surface contact. Again, old age, treachery and experience, SOME could learn from here instead of parreting. Again, not having met you yet, knew you had the above prerequisets(spellin sucks, but treachery makes up for it)to geter'dun.....CORRECTLY. Thanks again for "covering" me! See you and the others from the area in a few weeks!

[CaptonZap]

Thanks again for "covering" me! See you and the others from the area in a few weeks!

No problem, MM, it took us about as long as it would for you to ride over.

Smash and Karla seem eager to learn how to do this stuff, and while I don't claim to be the final answer on this stuff, I do know what has worked for me, and am willing and happy to pass on what ever can be of benefit to anyone who wants to keep these things running.
See you in Durango, CZ

[CaptonZap]

I do have to disagree on the silicone getting from the crank case to the oil galleys and cloging them though. It would first have to pass through the oil pickup screen, which probably wouldn't happen but enough of it could clog the screen.

But if a piece small enough to make it through did make it the next obstical would be the oil pump impellers, a formidable silicone grinder.

What made it through there would have to make it's way through the pores in the oil filter, which by the way are measured in microns.

I seriously doubt that something measured in microns would clog anything past that.

IMHO

Right on Greg, I agree with you, in this case. But what happens when someone, who has seen you smear a good dollop of silicone onto a piece and slam it in, doesn't give thought to where the joint is, and what is down stream from the inside of the joint. You have the experience and knowledge to know if a glob would pose a threat to the oil circulation, and take appropriate measures to make sure that that didn't happen. Someone who had just seen the dollop, and didn't relize there was some evaluation that went into that action before it got dolloped, might assume that the situation that they were in would not be harmed by the same sort of dolloping.
Might, might not. I just figure that it isn't that much more trouble to make a gasket, and be on the safe side.
Besides, you know how silicone ages. Just look at the old strippers. CZ

[BA80]

Agreed.....especially the part about the old hookers. I know a couple of old call girls that still look good though.

I was merely making a point about silicone clogging oil galleys. If it's going to clog them it won't be coming through the crankcase.

Besides, no one messes with you over here............I'm here now.

[3Phase]

I was merely making a point about silicone clogging oil galleys. If it's going to clog them it won't be coming through the crankcase.

Greg, there is an oil filter bypass valve. Oil can and does bypass the filter or the filter would start to collapse or tear before the oil pump pressure regulator valve opened up and dumped the oil right back into the oil pan instead of trying to feed it to the oil galleys through a mass of wadded up filter and a couple of blown out oil filter o-rings.

Now, y'all keep pourin' that name brand 20W-50 oil into an engine with an oil pump pressure regulator valve and an oil filter bypass valve with thirty year old springs originally spec'd for use with the 10W-30 or 20W-40 oil the engine was designed to use and it works just fine.

The thicker oil makes the transmission shift really nice and it masks a lot of annoying engine noises while a whole passel of particulates is bypassing that there fancy micron oil filter along with any blobs of sillycon silly string that weaseled their way through the inlet screen and the oil pump/shredder into the oil filter housing.

So, yes, silicone blobs can get into the oil system from the crankcase.

[CaptonZap]

Greg, there is an oil filter bypass valve. Oil can and does bypass the filter or the filter would start to collapse or tear before the oil pump pressure regulator valve opened up and dumped the oil right back into the oil pan instead of trying to feed it to the oil galleys through a mass of wadded up filter and a couple of blown out oil filter o-rings.

Now, y'all keep pourin' that name brand 20W-50 oil into an engine with an oil pump pressure regulator valve and an oil filter bypass valve with thirty year old springs originally spec'd for use with the 10W-30 or 20W-40 oil the engine was designed to use and it works just fine.

The thicker oil makes the transmission shift really nice and it masks a lot of annoying engine noises while a whole passel of particulates is bypassing that there fancy micron oil filter along with any blobs of sillycon silly string that weaseled their way through the inlet screen and the oil pump/shredder into the oil filter housing.

So, yes, silicone blobs can get into the oil system from the crankcase.

How do you like being tag teamed, Greg?
Did you think it was easier pick-ons over here?



OK now, let's see. 40 PSI in your rear tire, yer gonna die.
Silicone engine gaskets, yer engines gonna die.
Purrty soon, I'm gonna have this XS stuff figgered out.
CZ

[Smash]

I just can't thank CZ enough for all his help!!!