Is this engine chatter normal with auto CCT?

[James England]

You were convinced pretty easy to switch over to the dark side! !

Well, I rapidly realised the only person saying anything good about the OEM one was me. Then I read the bit about top ends exploding, and the marks on the pusher rod indicating sometimes that they slip back and contemplated the possibility. Then I went out and asked the bike what it would prefer. I mean, I personally think the OEM is absolutely the best but the bike disagreed, so I had to give in.

[crazy steve]

...The springs on an oem cct and the Venture cct are the same so there is no more tension on the cam chain than normal...

Actually, that's not true... at least on the ones I've got.

The Venture CCT spring is quite a bit stiffer than OEM, although I don't see that as a cause for concern. Enough of these have been swapped and used long-term that if it were an issue, it would have shown up by now.

But if it is a concern for you, look at the Vision CCT; nearly identical (very slight mod needed for install), but the spring on these is nearly the same as the OEM ones in terms of tension...

[natemoen]

Well, I rapidly realised the only person saying anything good about the OEM one was me. Then I read the bit about top ends exploding, and the marks on the pusher rod indicating sometimes that they slip back and contemplated the possibility. Then I went out and asked the bike what it would prefer. I mean, I personally think the OEM is absolutely the best but the bike disagreed, so I had to give in.

The bike is always right!

[James England]

The bike is always right!

Maybe that's why I think of it as female.......

[motoman]

Know your a bit hesitant there James, and I suspect it being from what the guys over the pond had said about it on the UK site. None of them were convinced and stated: "We'll see how it works out for the Yankees first". Well, you have your answer here, no need to wait. Remember.....tick.......tick.......tick.......

[James England]

Know your a bit hesitant there James, and I suspect it being from what the guys over the pond had said about it on the UK site. None of them were convinced and stated: "We'll see how it works out for the Yankees first". Well, you have your answer here, no need to wait. Remember.....tick.......tick.......tick.......

Strangely enough, I only use the US site, so I can honestly say my hesitation was not due to that. Thinking about it though, apart from perhaps noise, it can't really go wrong, can it? Can it? I'd prefer it if the end of the plunger were rubber/Viton tipped but if it doesn't damage the tensioner blade, that's the main thing

[DAVINCI]

I'd venture to say that if the cam chain itself rolling along it at a gazillion mph doesn't damage the tensioner blade, then a post resting / pushing on it won't likely damage it either.

[James England]

I'd venture to say that if the cam chain itself rolling along it at a gazillion mph doesn't damage the tensioner blade, then a post resting / pushing on it won't likely damage it either.

The chain is gazillioning on a Viton/rubber surface though... not bare metal. The spring blade is coated on one side (chain side) only..... and it's also sliding along a long surface. The Venture plunger has a much smaller diameter end than the OEM one, which is coated in rubber/Viton/whatever. What I'm thinking of is the metal to metal contact of the Venture plunger and the smaller diameter, in contact with a bare metal spring blade that is, by what's been posted here, exerting a lot of pressure at times. See what I mean?

In any event, it appears to have been done successfully and without incident. I'll have a look at the Venture CCT and see what possibility there is (if any) of 'padding' the end of it. It would have to be a really good mod. though as I wouldn't fancy blocks of rubber etc dropping off....

[3Phase]

James, to be honest you might not notice the difference between the automatic tensioner and the manual tensioner. Like Cy, I have a fairing that I swear amplifies the sound that engine oil makes as it gurgles through the metal pipe up to the back of the cylinder head.

Seriously though, over the last thirty-thousand miles I have become more or less familiar with the normal sounds from the engine -- plus a few special bonus sounds that I have no idea what they are but I fervently hope are just imaginary!

The automatic tensioner changes the type and volume of the sound from the valve train but I think it would be difficult to notice unless you were aware of the mod and you were listening for it. It would still be tough to walk up to a running XS1100 engine and, without looking at the front of the engine, be able to tell if that engine did or did not have an automatic cam chain tensioner installed.

I was more or less forced to get a Venture tensioner for my '80G. The original tensioner broke before I left for a long, strange, trip last summer so I had to get a replacement from Andreas. A couple of thousand miles later I was in Colorado and the cam chain was starting to get a little noisy so I adjusted the tensioner. I felt the lock bolt start to 'give' a little as I tightened it.

Still about a thousand miles from home and not wanting to take any chances, Motoman and I made a quick trip to a local motorcycle shop with a small wrecking yard in Grand Junction, CO., where I removed a shiny new tensioner from a Venture that was wearing a sad, somewhat sorrowful expression on its headight. Okay, so the tensioner wasn't exactly shiny or new -- but it cleaned up good! and it has worked flawlessly so far.

Yes, it does sing to me.

[James England]

James, to be honest you might not notice the difference between the automatic tensioner and the manual tensioner. Like Cy, I have a fairing that I swear amplifies the sound that engine oil makes as it gurgles through the metal pipe up to the back of the cylinder head.

Seriously though, over the last thirty-thousand miles I have become more or less familiar with the normal sounds from the engine -- plus a few special bonus sounds that I have no idea what they are but I fervently hope are just imaginary!

The automatic tensioner changes the type and volume of the sound from the valve train but I think it would be difficult to notice unless you were aware of the mod and you were listening for it. It would still be tough to walk up to a running XS1100 engine and, without looking at the front of the engine, be able to tell if that engine did or did not have an automatic cam chain tensioner installed.

I was more or less forced to get a Venture tensioner for my '80G. The original tensioner broke before I left for a long, strange, trip last summer so I had to get a replacement from Andreas. A couple of thousand miles later I was in Colorado and the cam chain was starting to get a little noisy so I adjusted the tensioner. I felt the lock bolt start to 'give' a little as I tightened it.

Still about a thousand miles from home and not wanting to take any chances, Motoman and I made a quick trip to a local motorcycle shop with a small wrecking yard in Grand Junction, CO., where I removed a shiny new tensioner from a Venture that was wearing a sad, somewhat sorrowful expression on its headight. Okay, so the tensioner wasn't exactly shiny or new -- but it cleaned up good! and it has worked flawlessly so far.

Yes, it does sing to me.

Sounds good enough to me! I'll get the Venture one on asap and report back....... I keep thinking of that camchain jumping off

[3Phase]

Sounds good enough to me! I'll get the Venture one on asap and report back....... I keep thinking of that camchain jumping off

It's not likely to jump off. Smash seems to have one that makes noise so it appears it doesn't work the same for everyone for every engine: quelle fromage!

Some tensioners hold just fine and there are sharp, distinct circles on the flat where the bolt tip held the plunger. The two tensioners I've seen that slipped didn't move more than a fraction of a whatever your favorite base unit of measurement is in either direction but the bolt tip made two circles smeared together into a sort of chattered oval because the plunger was forced back while the lock bolt was tight.

From the marks on the flat, the plunger goes in and you lock it down but there's a happy place it wants to be. It moves back out, slowly or quickly I suppose depends on how you run the engine and how tight the lock bolt is holding the plunger, and the chain starts to get noisy. The engine starts to 'lag' and it needs more fuel to do the same amount of work until you adjust the chain again.

I guess the automatic tensioner makes a sound similar to a slightly loose cam chain but the throttle response stays crisp without the 'lag' and the slight loss of fuel economy caused by a loose cam chain. And, of course, you don't actually have to tighten the chain.


Oh, by the way, the special bonus noises are the ones that every motorcyclist hears on long, empty, stretches of highway or at night when most of the local part of the planet is sleeping and it's so quiet that you can hear ants nattering in there nests nine feet under ground.

[jwhughes3]

why more fuel?

scott

what causes more fuel to be burned?

if it doesnt skip a tooth i cant see where the loose chain can cause this. what am i missing here?

john

[petejw]

hi james,

for any reason ur not happy with the self tensioner,
u could always tap a bolt into the center of the oem tensioner,



i wasnt the 1 that came up with the idea, but works great, ive had it
in for years now, the side bolt doesnt do anything except preventing oil
from leaking. jat.

[BA80]

scott

what causes more fuel to be burned?

if it doesnt skip a tooth i cant see where the loose chain can cause this. what am i missing here?

john

I'm with John on this. If the timing hasn't changed, how can a rattle cause the engine to burn more fuel.

That's all the tensioner does is keep the "loose" non working side of the chain from rattling around and skipping a tooth, unless it skipped a tooth somewhere wouldn't affect the running of the engine in any way I can see.

It just makes it sound like a coffee can full of marbles.

[3Phase]

John, the cams move slightly in and out of time when the chain is loose, sort of like the vacuum advance pot does when it's oscillating at low speed but you would need a timing light to be able to see it, not the Mark I eyeball.

If the ignition pickup coils were mounted in a regular camshaft-driven distributor instead of the left end of the crankshaft the loose cam chain would start to cause spark scatter.

Anyway, engine power and fuel economy decreases as cam chain slack increases. It's not a whole lot at first unless the cam chain gets ludicrously loose but it's there.

Long term the cam chain guides, gears, cam chain, camshaft lobes and the valves wear out a little faster as the chain gets loose. The cams load and unload the cam chain when they open and close the valves and that makes the slack chain wear faster, which wears the cams and the valves faster so the chain wears faster ....