Kick starter

[James England]

Hi Folks. Can someone please tell me what the point of the emergency kickstart is? On later bikes, as we all know, there isn't even the facility to have a kickstart and the shaft hole is blocked up.

As far as I understand, the TCI on the bike won't spark at anything less than 10.5v.... right? So, in the event of a flat battery, will using the kickstart actually start the bike? My bike is fitted with one (bolted out of the way across the frame, not permanently mounted) but I'm wondering if it would be any use whatsoever in the event of a completely flat battery, or battery that's too low to crank the engine over..........

I'd obviously be leaving the kickstart mounted on the bike but I really would like to know whether I can count on if the battery's flat!

[DGXSER]

I look at it this way, if your battery is flat, put it on and give it a few kicks or so. Might not work, may just get out your frustrations, but you tried.

Then again, if I am ever in an elevator that breakes and falls, 6" before it hits I am going to jump up. Might not work, you may see a bunch of bodies on the ground and one head stickin up through the roof, but thye will know I tried. (yes, I know that would not work, I saw myth busters, it is a joke)

[jetmechmarty]

Yamaha first fitted electric start to the XS-2 in 1972. It was a bit of an afterthought as the XS-1 and XS-1B did not have it. It wasn't reliable either, and came with compression release. I carried the starter on my XS650SK around as ballast for many years.

I expect the XS11 got a kick starter as Yamaha still wasn't confident in their "electric foot".

[mack]

Kick starter

I've used mine several times. Starter button was broken for awhile so I kicked it over every morning and night, back anbd forth to work. Also used it to exercise the cylinders several times, while saving what charge was in a low battery. Even with plugs out it is still moderately stiff to kick over though, and I'd recommend putting it on the center stand as if you loose your balance, they're heavy pigs to catch.

[James England]

I can start my bike using the kickstarter, no problem. It turns the engine fine and fires up easily enough. That's with power in the battery. What I really would like to know though is whether the kickstart will start the bike with a totally FLAT battery........... has anyone ever tried/succeeded in starting using the kick starter with a flat battery?

Of course, I could always flatten my battery and find out but I'm reticent to flatten it if someone already has the answer.....

[psycoreefer]

I've got a folding kicker off of a xs750 mounted on my 1100. I can tell you without a doubt that the kicker will not start a bike with a truly dead battery. If the battery at rest tests less than 10v there is no hope of kicking it to life.

That said I did use my kicker every single day for about 5 months. My battery was on its way out, wouldn't hold a full charge, but after sitting for a day or two it would read 11v. Not enough to crank it and have it fire, but more than enough to get a spark and have it start with the kicker. I rode back and forth to work like that until I could get a new battery.

So No it won't start a bike with a dead battery, yes it will start a bike that doesn't have enough juice to crank over and start itself.

[Pat Kelly]

My theory is that these bikes came out during a transition period from bikes that were kick-start only, kick and electric, then electric only.
My 72 Suz TS185 was kick only.
My 78 Honda 400 had elec and kick (I would kick-start it to razz my Harley buddies).
Then my XS which is electric (ok, my 78 has the kick tucked away). Yamaha also probably saw that no one was using the kick-start as the elec became more reliable. Save procuction cost by eliminating the entire kick-start assy.

As mentioned earlier, if the started button fails you can kick it to life. If the starter motor or starter clutch fails, you can start it.
I have kicked my E over and it's not hard at all (but then I use the centerstand 99.999% of the time and that's not difficult either)

[natemoen]

If the battery is flat dead, I say no (no experiance though). Where I think it would come in handy would be when the batter is bad and using the starter would drop the battery below the 10.5v point so that it would not trigger the coils but using the kick start would keep the batter voltage above the 10.5v cutoff.

[crazy steve]

Yamaha first fitted electric start to the XS-2 in 1972. It was a bit of an afterthought as the XS-1 and XS-1B did not have it. It wasn't reliable either, and came with compression release. I carried the starter on my XS650SK around as ballast for many years..

Yeah, I can second that. My XS-2 starter would usually start the bike, but if it didn't catch right away you'd quickly run out of battery; the kicker got used pretty regularly. Although my understanding the later versions were better; they did get rid of that strange compression release on the later models.

Kicking the 11? Only for masochists IMO... I kicked mine to life a few times (when the battery was partially low; real low or fully dead, you're out of luck) and it was like trying to stick your foot into a bucket of wet concrete. You definitely have to throw your weight into it...

[mack]

Kick start

my rule of thumb was always, as soon as the motor starts to slow down using the starter. Get off the button and on the kicker.

[cywelchjr]

my rule of thumb was always, as soon as the motor starts to slow down using the starter. Get off the button and on the kicker.

My rule of thumb is as soon as the motor starts to slow down using the starter get a jump! If nobody is around, call for roadside assistance.

[crazy steve]

One other thing that should be noted for those 'manly men' among us who have fitted permanently-mounted kickers on their bikes; the XS11 was never designed to be kick started on a regular basis. Every other bike I've ever had that had a 'normal' kickstarter on it also had a bronze or steel bushing in the sidecover to support the kicker shaft. The XS cover lacks this, with the shaft running right on the aluminum casting. Not really set up for regular use....

[3Phase]

James, the charging system on these bikes is a little weak so I use the folding 850 kicker I put on my '80G when I'm make hops around town (and sometimes just because I can .

That way I don't drain the battery with the starter, then not fully recharge it with a bunch of short trips and the starter is always there when I fumble-finger the clutch and stall with the tall-geared 750 final drive at an intersection or in heavy traffic. I don't know how it is in the U.K. but we change tires at 70 mph here in California and kickstarting a stalled bike with a hot engine and a low battery or trying to dismount and push it out of traffic is tantamount to suicide.

Steve, thanks for the heads up about the wear in the clutch cover, I'll keep an eye on it! There is also a potential problem with the plastic emblem on the right side cover when you use the kicker. Last weekend the one on my bike got caught on my leathers when I was kicking the engine for a quick three block trip from a gas station in 'Vegas to my friend's house and it ripped off the little plastic mounting bits. It can be repaired but it was something I hadn't considered when I installed the kicker.

[James England]

It is described as an 'emergency' kickstarter. Based on what Steve has said re the lack of bush in the side casing, I suspect it might damage the casing to use the kickstart regularly? It does require a hefty kick too. Casings are cheap to buy but I don't think that's quite the point......

My 750FD is running fine so far and I really like it. Yes, I miss the pre-mod accelleration to some degree but it's still a very fast bike and I know it feels happier.....a good trade-off....

[3Phase]

James, I've been using the 850 kicker for quite a while now and I haven't noticed any wear at all in the clutch cover or any weeping from the oil seal. It lets me know when the engine isn't running up to par and needs attention because it will require two or three kicks to start the engine instead of just one. I'll keep an eye on it and look around for a suitable bushing to bodg^H^H^H^H machine and press into the cover if it starts to wear or leak.

I spaced the kicker out a little on the splined shaft so it doesn't quite touch the air box chrome when it's folded in so the only problem I've had so far is the kicker retaining bolt head making a dog's breakfast out of the right-hand passenger footrest bracket before I noticed it. A flat bastard or angle grinder would have taken care of the problem in less than two shakes before it did any damage but it's already found its niche and made its mark so to speak so I've just left it as a warning to others:-

XS1100G with XS850 kicker wear on right-hand passenger footrest bracket.




XS1100G with XS850 kicker wear on right-hand passenger footrest bracket.




XS1100G with XS850 kicker does not touch the airbox chrome.