Handling

[Elevener]

Well I have the brace and progressive suspension front and rear. I think the big difference between these and newer bikes lie in the tires mostly. Size and composition. Of course run 40 psi and your gonna die!

[Mendizale]

Of course run 40 psi and your gonna die!

I've been wondering about this. The manual says 26-28 psi in the front and 28-36 in the back, but the newer tires recommend higher pressures. Which do we obey, the tire or the bike manual?

[motoman]

Tire manufaturer.

[James England]

I got the racetech emulators and it flicks with ease.

Is 'Racetech' a brand name then, or a generic term? Also, when you put them in, do you find it compresses the spring even more? I found my new Progressive springs a bit of a struggle to get in. If there's more space required for the emulators, it will be even harder!

From the sound of it, I'd like to fit them. Yup, I know I said my bike's handling is fine (I never do 100 mph) but the pursuit of excellence is never ending Do you have any advise/tips etc re fitting them? Thanks

[natemoen]

Racetech is the manufacturer.

[jetmechmarty]

James,

RaceTech is the manufacturer. www.racetech.com If you go this route, you will have to lose the progressive front springs. The Gold Valve Emulators are designed for use with straight rate springs.

IMHO, progressive springs are a compromise. Better than stock, but still a compromise.

[crazy steve]

RaceTech is the manufacturer. www.racetech.com If you go this route, you will have to lose the progressive front springs. The Gold Valve Emulators are designed for use with straight rate springs.

IMHO, progressive springs are a compromise. Better than stock, but still a compromise.

They aren't 'designed' for straight-rate springs; that's what RaceTech favors, that's all. I've ran these with Progressive springs as well as the RaceTech springs, and they work just as well with either. Yes, the additional length of the emulator will slightly increase preload (and make getting the fork caps on a bit more difficult) with the Progressive springs, but not enough to negatively affect ride/handling.

The 'progressive spring' vs 'straight rate' debate is a whole 'nother can of worms. If you're headed for the racetrack, there's no doubt that straight-rate springs will offer better handling, but in the 'real world' progressive-type springs may be a better choice. Certainly a smoother ride at less than full-out riding, and on rougher surfaces they can offer better handling by allowing superior compliance. It will really depend on your riding style and the roads you travel. I found the recommended RaceTech springs to be much too harsh for me and actually allowed the front to skitter around, but YMMV. It's interesting to note that most bikes now come from the factory with progressively-wound springs, which wasn't the case when the XS was new...

Tire pressures? 'Factory recommended' pressures are almost always too low for best handling, being slanted to 'ride quality' for the average rider. But running the maximum allowed for the tire may not be the answer either; tire pressure can drastically effect handling, so some experimentation may be in order. 40 psi F/R is a good starting point, with the front tire wanting to be close to this (without exceeding the tire rating). You can go less in the rear for a smoother ride, but as always, some trade-offs will be involved.

[crazy steve]

I'll add that there's now a new player on the market; these guys:

http://store.ricorshocks.com/product_p/039-20-1001.htm

Far superior product compared to the RaceTech units, but rather pricey and unfortunately not available for smaller, older forks that I'm aware of.

[Bonz]

When my stock shocks gave up the ghost last summer and started showing signs of leaking, I found a great thread on this forum about the Showa rear shocks from a Shadow 1100, most any year, and they are a direct swap out. Can't say enough how much better they control the rear end, even with preload as the only adjustment and no damping feature. You can find them all over Ebay, and they look pretty nice. You couldn't or wouldn't know they aren't stock unless you knew what you were looking at.

About the handling, I will echo the sentiments shared here about going through a corner and hitting bumps in the pavement. About two weeks ago I was taking an off-ramp at about 55 mph, and while leaned over, hit a nice swell in the pavement. The stock front end on my 80SG handled it fine, I run approx 21 psi in the fork and 15 wt oil, but the rear end didn't like it much at all and while the bike remained fully planted, the rear jiggled around left-right more than I've ever had before.

Went back a few days later on my '01 ZRX 1200 at the same speed and it was almost like the bump wasn't there in terms of upsetting the chassis.

I also notice when I'm "being bad" and take a set of sweepers that have perfect visibility at a medium lean (so I can feel comfortable going 75-80 mph) the small ripples that invariably occur on public roads give the bike a feeling like it's moving around more than I would like in terms of the chassis stability.

BUT in the grand scheme, those same things were noted in the period tests that I read from the "articles" section of the forum, so it doesn't concern me in the least.

It's the nature of the beast, and what a beast these XS1100's are! It's really cool to know we each have a piece of history, as this was the highest performance bike anyone in the world could buy off the showroom floor in it's hey-day.

Comparing the XS to my '01 ZRX, the XS a smoother engine by far (albeit not anywhere near the power), looks really good even today, and I can actually use most of what the XS has to offer in terms of performance, and that's a fun feeling. Using all of a more modern bike just ratchets up the ante in terms of the speed and other variables that just don't do it for me at this point in day to day riding. BUT a 130 hp/85 ft/lb burst is a lot of fun every once in a while on the ZRX...

[jetmechmarty]

I'm by no means an expert or even a "Ricky Racer", but I do know when buy bike ain't right, and it ain't.

I don't know anything about how progressive springs effect sag measurements. I hope it doesn't change a thing and that's what I'm going by.

I have 50 mm of sag both front and rear. The rear has progressive 120/170 rate springs. I'm planning to bump it to 140/200 as this is the most economical fix. That should get me into the desired 25 mm neighborhood. (I hope)

Progressive tells me the 120/170 springs are 15% heavier than stock. A passenger now points my headlight into the trees. I don't recall having that problem with the stock shock assemblies.

My front springs are factory and they are "sacked". I'm leaving that to Traxxion Dynamics to get my front end right. I expect those to be straight rate springs.

I expect my bike to give me confidence on these mountain roads once I have my suspension corrected. It seems that it hasn't been an easy task, as the rear is receiving its third set of springs.

[Bonz]

Getting the right amount of preload to successfully set your rear sag is a big help in handling. The back end drops (sags) too much and the geometry of the bike is all messed up. Makes the front end "light" and that does nothing good for the handling. Then you add a passenger...

I had a used '04 Honda ST 1300 that lost all the fluid in the remote preload adjuster, and the bike was a marshmallow at low speeds, front end wanted to wander all over. Found a barely used stock replacement for the shock from a guy who had put a high-dollar aftermarket shock on his bike, and that transformed the bike by being able to set it up correctly.

[Rasputin]

I put the progressive 418's on the rear of my bike and used the progressive springs in my forks as well. I also installed the TKat fork brace. The bike is like a different animal completely. The 418's on the rear were the single biggest contributor to my handling improvement, even better than the Tkat fork brace.

[jetmechmarty]

Getting the right amount of preload to successfully set your rear sag is a big help in handling.

Yep. That's the problem. I can't quite get enough preload on these shocks. I want proper sag with no preload. This way, I can load the bike and dial in proper preload.

even better than the Tkat fork brace

The fork brace helps, but I did not find it dramatic, especially with everything else wrong. To date, the emulators have made the biggest improvement, followed by tires to my liking.

I expect to be thrilled with the whole setup once I get properly sprung

[jwhughes3]

Missed this

"John,

Do you think I could get those springs for my new 412 series? I don't think I need that rate. I'm 235 lbs, my passengers are much less. I think my sag is too much with preload all the way "

Marty sorry I missed seeing your question..

I bought the shocks and springs together from tinman, but I believe I have seen the springs for sale separately.

I think alone they shouldn't be that expensive not to try them out...maybe $40 a pair I'd guess? Look for the 230/275 spring and see how it feels...I know it sounds like overkill, but I really like it.

John

[Craigaboy]

BUT in the grand scheme, those same things were noted in the period tests that I read from the "articles" section of the forum, so it doesn't concern me in the least.

It's the nature of the beast, and what a beast these XS1100's are! It's really cool to know we each have a piece of history, as this was the highest performance bike anyone in the world could buy off the showroom floor in it's hey-day.

Comparing the XS to my '01 ZRX, the XS a smoother engine by far (albeit not anywhere near the power), looks really good even today, and I can actually use most of what the XS has to offer in terms of performance, and that's a fun feeling. Using all of a more modern bike just ratchets up the ante in terms of the speed and other variables that just don't do it for me at this point in day to day riding. BUT a 130 hp/85 ft/lb burst is a lot of fun every once in a while on the ZRX...

I like what you are pointing out here. I road from anchorage Alaska to kasilof on my xs11(through a mountain pass), a route I have ridden on klr650s, fz1, R6, cb750, xs400, and a 2009 1200 sportster. Alaska pavement is horrible. Heaving from frost, potholes, and lots of cracks. Each bike had it's own quirks and potential pitfalls.

I like that the xs limits me and takes a little more vigilance in the corners.

If you are setting up a 30+ year old bike to handle the load of two large adults, the cornering performance is going to suffer. I have the 412s on mid spring preload, and weigh in at 200. The sag is a little more than rec, but I find it takes up the Alaskan heaves and stays in contact with the pavement better.