My First Project

[davidsymons53]

DGXSER that is the wire. So it attaches to the + on the battery with the + battery cable?

[DGXSER]

On my bike that is the positive battery cable, nothing else attaches to the battery. The red wire that is connected to that cable is the power feed to everything else.

[davidsymons53]

1981 xs1100 SPECIAL fuel tank sensor

1. Notice the loose wire. Can the unit be repaired, and if so how would I repair it?

l



2. Is there a simple way to make a small temporary gas tank. I need to sync/colourtune the carbs and I don't want the stock tank in the way?

Thanks David

[natemoen]

Can't speak to the sender, don't have a special never delt with it.

As to the small tank, I have a little 1 gal tank I screwed a 1/4 inch hose barb into the vent hole and the I can hook a fuel line to that and tip the tank on it's a side.

[davidsymons53]

Thanks Nate. That is the simplicity I was looking for to make a temp tank.

[fredintoon]

1. Notice the loose wire. Can the unit be repaired, and if so how would I repair it?
2. Is there a simple way to make a small temporary gas tank. I need to sync/colourtune the carbs and I don't want the stock tank in the way?

Hi David,
1) I suspect that unless you know exactly how that sender works and are a skilled instrument mechanic besides, it's hooped.
2) Mr Stupid took his old lawnmower to the dump without first salvaging it's little plastic gas tank, hopefully you are smarter.
Or see if you can scrounge one from a local small engine repair shop.

[davidsymons53]

Fred the wire is supposed to be attached to center of the top of the thing-a ma-jiggy. I did some careful scratching there and it looks like there is a small circle of metal. On a closer inspection of the disconnected wire there is a tiny, tiny bit of solder on the tip. I am going to solder the wire back on and I' ll let you know if it works.

David

[davidsymons53]

I should have kept this post in the "My First Project" thread.

On page 161, photo 4 of the Clymer manual there is only one wire going to (coming from) the positive battery terminal to the solenoid of the standard xs1100.

This is a picture of my 1981 xs1100 special. There are two wires, one red and one black, going to (coming from) the solenoid.



I know the red wire with the rubber terminal cover connects to the positive battery terminal, but what does the short black wire connect to?
__________________
1981 XS1100 Special
Previous Bikes
1999 Honda Goldwing Aspencade 1500
1983 Honda Goldwing Aspencade 1100
1982 Honda CB900c
1984 Honda vt750 Shadow. My son's bike now.
1984 Honda vt500 Shadow

crazy steve
XS-XJ Guru

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Beautiful outer Yelm, WA
Posts: 2,528
That shouldn't be there....

What that 'extra' wire looks like is the grounding jumper that goes between the engine cases and the frame. It should be installed between the upper rear bolt that attaches the middle drive to the main cases and a lug on the frame just below and inside of the front mount for the sidecover lock. This lug is also where the negative battery cable should attach. I'll bet you'll find that not installed...
__________________
Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

'78E original owner - resto project
'78E ???? owner - Modder FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
'80SG former modder, now to be restified
'79F parts...
'81H more parts...

Other current bikes:
'93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
'86 XL883/1200 Chopper
'82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
Cage: '83 Jag XJS w/LT1 'Vette
Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...


fredintoon

XS-XJ Super Guru

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Saskatoon SK
Posts: 4,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsymons53 View Post
On page 161, photo 4 of the Clymer manual there is only one wire going to (coming from) the positive battery terminal to the solenoid of the standard xs1100.

This is a picture of my 1981 xs1100 special. There are two wires, one red and one black, going to (coming from) the solenoid.

I know the red wire with the rubber terminal cover connects to the positive battery terminal, but what does the short black wire connect to?
Hi David,
looks like you've been PO'd.
Skip ahead to pp 276/277 for the wiring diagram and see how the circuits are supposed to run.
Note that the fat RED wire is the orphan here, stock fat battery wires are both BLACK.
Not that a red wire isn't correct for a positive feed, it's that Yamaha (too cheap to buy red wire?) used a black wire instead.
You photo also shows a red wire with a red woven outer cover peeking out from behind the draped towel.
That red wire should connect somewhere on the fat positive wire (never mind it's colour) and run to the main 30A fuse that is behind the leftside cover.
My red wire was crimped into the positive starter solenoid connection but a separate 6mm eye on the solenoid post is OK too.
__________________
Fred Hill, S'toon
XS11SG with Spirit of America sidecar
"The Flying Pumpkin"
Reply With Quote

davidsymons53

I should have kept this post in the "My First Project" thread. Oh well.

While I was waiting for some help on the two wire question I went out and replaced the broken starter button. Who knew that a $5.00 part would take me three hours to install?

The two wires mystery is solved. While the PO was waiting to sell the bike, he went through the electrical system and checked all the lights and horn etc.. The bike needed a battery and since he had it listed @ $750.00 he installed a small battery just for that purpose. The battery was so small the positive cable would not reach the battery terminal, hence the second wire.

As for the ground wire and the red sheathed red wire there are connected exactly were they belong.

Speaking of the battery, two days ago I put the battery tender on the new, never before used battery, knowing I was just about ready to try to start the bike for the first time in at least ten years. Although it was a good plan, I managed to plug in my heavy duty battery charger instead of the battery tender. Now I will have to wait a little longer before I can attempt the "first start".

On a separate note Fred, I did keep not one, not two, not three but five lawnmower gas tanks from a bunch of lawnboys I scraped last fall.

I had forgotten that I kept them to use one as a temporary tank, even though I have been tripping over them all winter long. Why did I keep so many? No-one, including me will ever know.

On the bright side if you need an old lawnmower gas tank I have one just for you... and you... and you etc.

Thanks all for the help,

David

[TopCatGr58]

Disclaimer, I'm not an electrics guru!

Hey David,

That sending unit is what they call a THERMISTOR. A current is run threw the wires...but the fuel keeps it cool, and keeps the connection from completing the circuit=no fuel light on. Once the fuel level drops below that, then it heats up and makes a complete circuit/path and power then gets to the idiot fuel light.

T.C.

[davidsymons53]

Finally, I have gotten to the point where I can try to start the engine. This has been a long and drawn out process.

Some people would say I am not dealing with a full deck, others would say that I'm a half a bubble off plumb. As I have said before I am working with the mental handicap that greatly impairs my cognitive abilities. For example I stored the gas tank in the house over the winter. I installed the fuel sending unit in the tank in the house but did not have the correct socket to tighten up the bolts. I said to myself I will tighten them up when I get out to the garage. 15 min. later having connected the fuel lines to the carburetor, I proceeded to pour gasoline into the tank. To my amazement gasoline started pouring out onto the floor. I stop pouring the gas and check the fuel lines for leaks. Then I found the gas pouring out of the loose fuel sending unit.

I say all that to say this. I need simple and specific, step-by-step instructions to troubleshoot my problem.

I cleaned all the electrical connections, and then turned the key. The light came on, the neutral light came on, I push the starter button and nothing happened. Next, I jumped the solenoid from the positive connection to the wire that goes to the starter. By the way that extra long positive battery cable worked very well to jumper the solenoid.

The engine turned over but did not start. I looked at some information I downloaded from this site and it was suggested that the starter button or the kill switch might be dirty. I had already had the controls apart when I changed out the broken start button. They look pretty clean to me but I opened it up again sprayed the contacts for the starter button, I took apart the kill switch made sure all of this connections were clean sprayed with contact cleaner and reassembled the switch.

I turned the key, the lights came on, the neutral light came on, push the starter button but no go. In the info I downloaded from our site there was a reference to "depending on where you jumped the solenoid". This was an indication to me that there were options as to where I could jumper the solenoid connections, so I started experimenting.



I jumped the positive battery cable to the screw holding the blue/striped white wire. Nothing happened. I jumped the positive battery cable to the soldered on red/white striped wire. The interesting thing was the head light came on and the neutral light came on, so I push the starter button.The engine turned over for a bit and then roared to life and I do mean roared. I hit the kill switch and the engine stopped.

I adjusted the idle, jump the solenoid to the red/white striped wire and started the bike and still the roar high RPMs. I hit the kill switch and the engine stopped. Then I remembered, thankfully, the question in the info I got from our site as to whether the engine stops when the jumper is removed.I went through the process of turning the key, jumping the red/white striped wire, pushing the starter button, starting the bike and then pulled the jumper off the red/white striped wire and the engine died.

So this is where I need some electrical guru to walk me through, step-by-step the process I need to take to get past this jumpering of the solenoid.

The fuses are good. When I turn the key the neutral light does come on so the power is getting that far. Now I am not certain if the power goes from the ignition back to the red/white striped wire that solders onto the solenoid, or whether the power is supposed to go from the red/white striped wire to to the starter button or elsewhere. This is where my troubleshooting prowess comes to a crashing halt.

I have a full color wiring schematics of the XS 1100 SH but mostly I can't follow the wiring through the starting process.

Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thanks, David

[natemoen]

Under the tank and above the coils there are 2 little squareish items hanging from the frame in the middle. One (usually the forward most of the two) should be a gold colored box, that is the headlight relay ignore it. The other (usually the rear most of the two) should the tip over switch, unplug this and leave it unplugged for now and try and start the bike normally. Unplugging it bypasses the tipover switch so if it starts then you need to replace it or open the switch and clean it. If it doesnt start then we will continue searching.

[crazy steve]

...So this is where I need some electrical guru to walk me through, step-by-step the process I need to take to get past this jumpering of the solenoid.

The fuses are good. When I turn the key the neutral light does come on so the power is getting that far. Now I am not certain if the power goes from the ignition back to the red/white striped wire that solders onto the solenoid, or whether the power is supposed to go from the red/white striped wire to to the starter button or elsewhere. This is where my troubleshooting prowess comes to a crashing halt...

If your starter button is failing to work, here's what to check...

At the plug at the solenoid (the two small wires), the red/white wire should have 12v on it with the key on. This wire also goes to the TCI and kill switch, so if you have power at the switch but none at the solenoid, this wire is broken inside the harness; unlikely. The blue/green wire goes to the start button and is the 'return' wire (actually a ground). Check this wire to ground; it should be open until the button is pushed, then it should read zero ohms to ground (or close to zero). If it doesn't read zero (or a value below 1 ohm), then you have a bad connection. It can be in the plug between the main harness and the handlebar controls, the button itself, or a poor ground between the handlebar housing and the handlebars. Clean all these points, and the problem should disappear.

One thing I've found is that just 'spraying' the contacts/connections with cleaner isn't always very effective. The handlebar switches (the horn, turn, and starter button in particular) usually need to be disassembled and the contacts cleaned to bright metal to eliminate any issues. Some fine steel wool works well for this, just make sure you clean all the 'filings' out before reassembly.

I just went through the same issues on the SG I'm rebuilding, and I had a poor ground between the handlebars and the switch housing, and loose connections in the plug between the switch leads and the main harness. This can be a slow process checking/fixing this, but being thorough now will prevent chasing gremlins later...

[davidsymons53]

Nate, I eased the tip over switch out of his little rubber holder only to find the two wires are soldered to the box.

Steve, even when I jump the red white wire with the positive battery cable I still have to use the start button to turn the engine over and start the bike. I can shut down the engine by turning the key off or switching their kill switch to stop.

I used my voltmeter and measured between the white/red wire and ground. With the key off I get 6.1 V., with the key on it drops down to 5.9 V. When I push the start button with the key on it jumps up to 11.55 V. The 11.55 V is just about what the battery is is is measuring right now. It is a little low because of all the cranking I've done without actually getting it charging with the motor running.

I used the ohmmeter between the blue white wire and ground with the key on and I get 1.3 ohms. When I press the start button it drops to .5 ohms.

So where should I go from here. Anybody out there that can help I would appreciate.

Thanks, David

[davidsymons53]

With this electrical snafu going on I didn't mention how ecstatic I am that the engine starts and runs. Pretty good for not running for 10 years.

David

[crazy steve]

Ok, let's take this a piece at a time...

>Steve, even when I jump the red white wire with the positive battery cable I still have to use the start button to turn the engine over and start the bike. I can shut down the engine by turning the key off or switching their kill switch to stop.

That would be correct; to bypass the start button, you need to jumper the other small wire to the negative terminal (ground), which is in effect what the start button does.

>I used my voltmeter and measured between the white/red wire and ground. With the key off I get 6.1 V., with the key on it drops down to 5.9 V. When I push the start button with the key on it jumps up to 11.55 V. The 11.55 V is just about what the battery is measuring right now. It is a little low because of all the cranking I've done without actually getting it charging with the motor running.

Here you have a problem; there should be no voltage present with the key off. And it shouldn't drop when the key is on. This wire starts at the fuse panel (as a red/white), goes to the kill switch, then from there goes to the starter solenoid and the TCI. You should have full battery voltage with the key on at all points, none otherwise. Try unplugging the TCI and see if the problem goes away; if it does, you may have a bad box (or the wrong box? You do have the correct 4R0 TCI?) . If not, then you need to trace this wire and see where it goes and if it's been tapped into... bummer

>I used the ohmmeter between the blue white wire and ground with the key on and I get 1.3 ohms. When I press the start button it drops to .5 ohms.

Again, another problem. With the key on or off, you should get an 'open' to ground on this wire (no continuity) until the button is pressed. The .5 ohm reading when it's pressed is OK (could be lower), but any reading before it's pressed is bad. Again, you need to trace this and check for bare spots, something tapped into it, wrong connections. This wire goes directly from the button to the starter solenoid.

Both of these wires come out of the main harness under the tank and plug into the handlebar switch harness. Unplug this (also remove the ignition circuit fuse), then check to ground and for continuity to make sure these go where they're supposed to. This will also isolate your problem hopefully; main harness or handlebars. You can get pinched wires at the bars, or if turning the key on introduces voltage anywhere or changes ohm readings, you have something connected that shouldn't be. Be methodical, check and clear each piece, and you'll find the problem. You may have to split the harness wrap, but that's not that big a deal...

Check and get back to us...