Swirly wheels vs standard

[rockman]

I have both as XS1100 standard with a sidecar(1980), and a special (1981). The standard has a few little problems - second gear went, and now its stuck in first. Major surgery required. So, I'm going to pull the chair of the standard and put it on the special, but I was wondering which were the strongest wheels, the swirly ones on the special, or the ones on the standard. Since it will get some crappy dirt roads sometimes, I want the strongest ones on, and the swirly ones just look a little flimsy to me. Any comments? Anybody broken one?

[Eveready1100]

Mate, there's been a fair bit of discussion on both the UK and Aussie sites about problems with the inner bearing carrier sleeves on the swirly wheels separating from the alloy casting. They don't actually become physically loose because of the shape of the outside of the sleeve but can cause an unsettling "CLICK" noise while riding along.
The straight spoke wheels are physically heavier by about 1kg each and the rear hub casting is wider between the diff flange and the brake disc by 8mm hence the need for the different brake caliper brackets between the two types of wheel.

[fredintoon]

I have both as XS1100 standard with a sidecar(1980), and a special (1981). The standard has a few little problems - second gear went, and now its stuck in first. Major surgery required. So, I'm going to pull the chair of the standard and put it on the special, but I was wondering which were the strongest wheels, the swirly ones on the special, or the ones on the standard. Since it will get some crappy dirt roads sometimes, I want the strongest ones on, and the swirly ones just look a little flimsy to me. Any comments? Anybody broken one?

Hi rock,
us 3-wheelers gotta stick together, right?
Um, don't swap the chair, swap the power units?
Didya do anything to reduce the rig's steering trail?
Couldya post a photo of your rig?

[CatatonicBug]

I have both as XS1100 standard with a sidecar(1980), and a special (1981). The standard has a few little problems - second gear went, and now its stuck in first. Major surgery required. So, I'm going to pull the chair of the standard and put it on the special, but I was wondering which were the strongest wheels, the swirly ones on the special, or the ones on the standard. Since it will get some crappy dirt roads sometimes, I want the strongest ones on, and the swirly ones just look a little flimsy to me. Any comments? Anybody broken one?

I'm confused... The swirly wheels are only on the '81 MNS (XS1100 LH) and the XJ. All other XS's (Standards AND Specials) have straight-spoked wheels.

[DGXSER]

Hey Bug, I thought of that, but it does not say where he is and some of the Euro bikes had a mixture of what were on the US models. So perhaps??

[fredintoon]

Hey Bug, I thought of that, but it does not say where he is and some of the Euro bikes had a mixture of what were on the US models. So perhaps??

Hi Don,
more than "perhaps"? Tending towards "likely"? I'm embarrassed that an ex-Brit like myself would miss noticing the Limey term "chair" used for "sidecar" until I read your post.

[rockman]

I'm in Australia, and it's definitely got swirly wheels. I'd like to it the standard ones if I can, but I'm not sure which parts I can mix and match. I read somewhere on this forum that for sidecar use the special forks in the standard triple clamps work best (reduced trail), but can I use the standard wheel in this setup and which calipers do I use? I dont mind swapping parts to get the best result. So what is the "best" setup for sidecar use?
Phil

[CatatonicBug]

Ah! In Australia, you must have the RH. Not a true "Special" persay, but more of a mishmash of parts from other models, along with some unique ones (like the handlebars). However, the RH does most closely resemble a Special. All the front wheels are the same as far as I know, except for the cosmetic difference of the swirly ones. The diameter is the same, so you'd be fine to mix and match. The thing that is different is the diameter of the REAR wheel between the Standards and Specials. You also lose the gold accent by switching to the Standard wheels though.

[fredintoon]

I'm in Australia, and it's definitely got swirly wheels. I'd like to it the standard ones if I can, but I'm not sure which parts I can mix and match. I read somewhere on this forum that for sidecar use the special forks in the standard triple clamps work best (reduced trail), but can I use the standard wheel in this setup and which calipers do I use? I dont mind swapping parts to get the best result. So what is the "best" setup for sidecar use?
Phil

Hi Phil,
if your Australian '81 Special has the same forks as my North American '80 Special with the axle in front rather than underneath the slider, it's triple clamps have a shorter reach to keep the trail the same as a Standard. Swapping in the longer reach triple clamps from a Standard will move the fork tubes forward which will move the front wheel forward to reduce the trail.
The calipers will have to be the ones that came with the fork legs because of the way they fit onto the sliders. Same deal with the mudguard, a Standard mudguard bolts up with it's blade in the wrong place. Use the Standard headlight ears because they'll fit on the Standard triple clamps while the Special fork ears will need to be cut short. Any XS series front wheel will work.

[rockman]

Hi Phil,
if your Australian '81 Special has the same forks as my North American '80 Special with the axle in front rather than underneath the slider, it's triple clamps have a shorter reach to keep the trail the same as a Standard. Swapping in the longer reach triple clamps from a Standard will move the fork tubes forward which will move the front wheel forward to reduce the trail.
The calipers will have to be the ones that came with the fork legs because of the way they fit onto the sliders. Same deal with the mudguard, a Standard mudguard bolts up with it's blade in the wrong place. Use the Standard headlight ears because they'll fit on the Standard triple clamps while the Special fork ears will need to be cut short. Any XS series front wheel will work.

Thanks Fred - thats what I needed to know. I'll try to swap the sidecar over on the weekend and post a photo or 2 afterwards.

[Eveready1100]

Hi Rockman! Sorry, mate. I didn't even look where you were from before I posted my reply before. Now I know where we stand.
For CBUG and the others interested, the RH uses the same forks as the XJ1100 with the leading axle, floating calipers slotted discs and swirley wheel.
The rear swirley wheel is a 17 incher though, which makes it another of those unique parts on the bike as the XJ's are 16".
Now Rockman, to swap the front wheel over from swirley to straight, simply remove both wheels and swap over the speedo drive as the Standard's won't engage in the RH fork slider, all the other axle parts, spacers etc are the same so it should fit straight back in.
The rear has the same requirements as a normal Special / Standard swap. To put it simply, remove one wheel and all of the spacers, axle, brake caliper bracket etc that go with it and put the other in its place along with all the hardware that came with that one.

[jwhughes3]

Aussie RH

Ah! In Australia, you must have the RH. Not a true "Special" persay, but more of a mishmash of parts from other models, along with some unique ones (like the handlebars). However, the RH does most closely resemble a Special.

Does that Aussie RH model have the handlebars swapped around to drive on the opposite side of the road?

I had no idea there were differences like that in the AUS version - I imagine same goes for XS 1.1 in Europe?

I know they got the cool seat with side grab handles (why not here?!?) and I suspect maybe the cam was more aggressive due to no EPA? (anyone confirm?)

John

[crazy steve]

...and I suspect maybe the cam was more aggressive due to no EPA? (anyone confirm?)

John

You suspect right; the non-NA bikes kept the hotter E/F cams to the end of production, as well as the E/F type head and valves. The head shows as a different part number, but that's due to it's black finish. Same thing goes for the carbs/ignition pretty much, although the 5K7 and RH did go to the later 4R0 ignition box.

[CatatonicBug]

Does that Aussie RH model have the handlebars swapped around to drive on the opposite side of the road?

I had no idea there were differences like that in the AUS version - I imagine same goes for XS 1.1 in Europe?

The handlebars are kinda unique for the RH (Oceana version) only. They are round bars, but connect to the 'trees separately, similar to the XJ. Almost like clipons. The Europe version has the same bars as everyone else AFAIK.

[Eveready1100]

The Rh bars are totally different to the XJ's, but the same as the UK 5k7 Sports.



They consist of three main pieces which mount on conventional clamps on the upper tree. Can be adjusted to be nearly totally straight, or raked back up to about 30 degrees from the centre section.
Here's a diagram of the assembly



Different, eh fellas?