Lights

[Nubian]

Which is the better/brighter light the round or rectangular?

[crazy steve]

Well, they both use the same halogen lamp, so 'brightness' would be the same. As far as how well the light is distributed in front of the bike, my personal opinion would have to give the edge to the square version, assuming both lens/reflector assemblies are in the same condition. But the round light does have one advantage; unlike the square headlight, you can upgrade with a better aftermarket 7" headlight if you're willing to make the investment.

[Nubian]

Well, they both use the same halogen lamp, so 'brightness' would be the same. As far as how well the light is distributed in front of the bike, my personal opinion would have to give the edge to the square version, assuming both lens/reflector assemblies are in the same condition. But the round light does have one advantage; unlike the square headlight, you can upgrade with a better aftermarket 7" headlight if you're willing to make the investment.

Better light?
HID?
If not which?

[natemoen]

How much difference does that new reflector make steve? I hear you always talking about it. Do you have any before/after pics for comparison?

[crazy steve]

Well, as for HID 'conversions', that is pretty well beat to death here...http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ght=HID&page=3... but the conclusion is they're illegal pretty much anywhere in the US.

Nate, as far as the difference between a 'conventional' OEM headlight (whether it's halogen or not) and a premium headlight like the Cibie units, I don't think any photo I could take would really show the difference. As you've already guessed, I'm a huge fan of the Cibies. I've installed their lights in six different vehicles over the years and never been disappointed in the improvement, and more importantly (at least for me) I've also never had any issues with oncoming drivers 'flashing' me once the lights are properly adjusted. The last one I installed (in my Sportster) was very nearly a night/day change, but those have a small 5.75" headlight with a plastic lens/shell and it had deteriorated somewhat with age.

One thing I have noticed is the OEM headlights on these bikes just don't have the lens 'clarity' that the Cibies do. Another thing I've noticed is the silvering can go bad; I've got several square halogen light assemblies that look ok, but careful examination shows that the silvering is going/has gone bad (not neccesarily dulled, but starting to lift/bubble), and even on the 'good' one it's not as good as the Cibie units. As we both know, Yamaha perversely put the mounting brackets on the headlight reflector, so you can't swap for 'generic' units like you can with the 7" round lights.

Now, for what it's worth, the best comparison I can offer is the difference I found between my then-new '78 (with it's square sealed-beam) and the 650 I sold to buy it. The 650 had a semi-legal (at the time) Cibie I installed that used an incandescent lamp (so lamp wattage/color was the same), and the difference was that the square light threw more light to the sides on low beam, but didn't have quite the same 'reach' as the 7" round cibie. Truthfully, I was semi-impressed with the square light, given what it was and the limitations of the currently-available-then headlights. If I end up unhappy with the OEM square halogen unit, I'll look into building an 'adaptor' to fit an aftermarket unit; I see a way to do this, but have to hit the car boneyard to find the parts.

Given the costs of the HID 'conversions', the reliability/parts availability/legality issues attached to them, why you wouldn't look for a better lens/reflector assembly is what surprises me...

[cywelchjr]

Better light?
HID?
If not which?

There is a unit out there that is actually legal in the U.S. for those with 7' round headlights, but it would take some surgery because it will NOT fit into the headlight shell, you would have to cut the back out and do some fab work, and for those with a fairing it would take some fab work too, but I'm thinking about it.

But they are pricey, something like $400 each, but they replace the entire headlight, reflector and all, and actually move the reflector like the factory systems do. They are actually made for Jeeps, but are marketed as single units for motorcycles as well, but require more work to fit into the headlight area.

[cywelchjr]

Well, as for HID 'conversions', that is pretty well beat to death here...http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ght=HID&page=3... but the conclusion is they're illegal pretty much anywhere in the US.

Nate, as far as the difference between a 'conventional' OEM headlight (whether it's halogen or not) and a premium headlight like the Cibie units, I don't think any photo I could take would really show the difference. As you've already guessed, I'm a huge fan of the Cibies. I've installed their lights in six different vehicles over the years and never been disappointed in the improvement, and more importantly (at least for me) I've also never had any issues with oncoming drivers 'flashing' me once the lights are properly adjusted. The last one I installed (in my Sportster) was very nearly a night/day change, but those have a small 5.75" headlight with a plastic lens/shell and it had deteriorated somewhat with age.

One thing I have noticed is the OEM headlights on these bikes just don't have the lens 'clarity' that the Cibies do. Another thing I've noticed is the silvering can go bad; I've got several square halogen light assemblies that look ok, but careful examination shows that the silvering is going/has gone bad (not neccesarily dulled, but starting to lift/bubble), and even on the 'good' one it's not as good as the Cibie units. As we both know, Yamaha perversely put the mounting brackets on the headlight reflector, so you can't swap for 'generic' units like you can with the 7" round lights.

Now, for what it's worth, the best comparison I can offer is the difference I found between my then-new '78 (with it's square sealed-beam) and the 650 I sold to buy it. The 650 had a semi-legal (at the time) Cibie I installed that used an incandescent lamp (so lamp wattage/color was the same), and the difference was that the square light threw more light to the sides on low beam, but didn't have quite the same 'reach' as the 7" round cibie. Truthfully, I was semi-impressed with the square light, given what it was and the limitations of the currently-available-then headlights. If I end up unhappy with the OEM square halogen unit, I'll look into building an 'adaptor' to fit an aftermarket unit; I see a way to do this, but have to hit the car boneyard to find the parts.

Given the costs of the HID 'conversions', the reliability/parts availability/legality issues attached to them, why you wouldn't look for a better lens/reflector assembly is what surprises me...

There is one out there. It's a unit that replaces the entire reflector and everything, and you won't fit it into the shell without some cutting, but it's DOT approved for street use, and it's AFAIK the only one, but only for round headlights. I'm thinking about it but I'm gonna have to setup a special savings account for it, they're like $400 for a single headlight. I'll have to hunt up the link for it. Here is the link to the site for a universal unit for single 7' round headlight systems http://www.xesighting.com/jeepxe7r.html that works for any vehicle that uses a round 7' headlight (bike with 7' or car with 2 round headlights). So this kit would have converted my old 74 Vega to HID (not sure why I would have bothered but it would have). But again, it's not cheap, but it's DOT approved.

[crazy steve]

Before I spent that kind of money, I'd at least try a premium-quality 7" headlight; you might end up being very surprised. Any single 'conventional' (as opposed to the 'styled' euro models used on some cars) Cibie light can be gotten for about $80, and the difference in the reflector silvering and clarity of the lens compared to any OEM I've ever seen is striking, as is the performance.

Again, the problem with comparing HID and halogen in a late model OEM application is nearly all new headlights use plastic lenses, and they just don't transmit light as well as optical-quality glass. The last set of glasses I got with plastic lenses didn't seem to work as well, and I was told that the difference between glass and plastic as far as light transmission was plastic is 10% poorer (or more), and that's the good stuff. I've switched back to glass lenses (in spite of the weight penalty) and got a big improvement. I doubt very much that the OEM manufacturers are using plastic that good, so you could be looking at as much as 20% loss, even more after it degrades.

I did a lot of lighting retrofits (for energy saving) when I was still working, and one thing I learned was while lamp output (lumens per watt) was important, having the right reflector assembly was critical to having a job that furnished the lighting level needed at a reduced wattage. It's not all about how much light you have, but how well you get it to where you need it...