Final drive swap

[cywelchjr]

Don't hold me to this or hold me responsible for anything I say from here forward, but a fellow forum member that did the FD swap about the same time I did, shared with me that he used rivets properly fitted in the holes instead of the sealer and washer method. Seemed pretty ingenious to me!

I thought (once) about tapping the holes and putting little set screws in them (loctited in of course) to seal them instead of doing anything else. If I have to repeat, I may try that. Of course I'd want to make sure that nothing got into the FD itself, but I think it's possible, but the rivet might work better, maybe, or maybe a self tapping screw with loctite?

[3Phase]

Cy, I think it was aircraft rivets: thicker close to the head and the size was really close to the hole size in the final drive.

[CaptonZap]

AN 470 or 430- AD5-4 to 6, 2 each
Sand the edge off of one side of the head, so that it will miss the washer. (I used a belt sander) Take it off clear up to the shank. (Look in and you will see what I mean)
Take a small bit off the head edge 180 deg opposite of the edge you just cut. This allows clearance around the outside.
Clean the holes with acetone, using a Qtip.
Apply locktite to the shank, grasp with tweezers, needle nose pliers, insert into holes.
Drive home with flat head drift.
This means you don't have to alter what was, presumably, a factory setting on the pinion nut.
CZ

[3Phase]

Thank you, Capton!

We really were paying attention but the little details are hard to remember. Eventually, I'll find another 758/850 drive for Columbo and I'll try the rivets.

[Dudenatz]

Here's what I used; a nail. The holes are 4mm, so I started thinking 4mm dowel pins. The problem with them is that they are usually hardened, as the coupling itself also appears to be. There wouldn't be much give on either side. Tapping the holes might prove a problem for the same reason. The thought of trying to extract a broken tap, or having to try to grind it flush so I could seal it wasn't too pleasant. I looked through my hardware bins on my bench and noticed the round shank of some nails. I pulled one out and my vernier measured 4.02mm. After a good surface cleaning with a scotch-brite disc, it was right @ 4. They were a bit larger than a 16D sinker, which was 3.71mm. I cut two 1/2" pieces, beveled one end, cleaned the holes, applied some Loctite 660 Press Fit Retaining Compound, and drove them in. Home-made soft dowel pins! I'll still use the 1/2" washer to keep Murphy out of the equation. I had already removed the nut by the time I read the thread, but it broke free @180 in lbs, (about 15 ft lbs) so that's where i'll torque it to to start. I read here you want 4 ft lbs rolling torque on the drive input, so i'll adjust accordingly. Here's a pic of the final result: OK, so after a lot of reading and consternation i've discovered that I cannot attach a picture to this post. Since I don't upload my pics to any particular website, I guess you won't be seeing my final result. Anyway, it worked well. I was kind of proud of it too. Oh well, I guess i'll go eat a bunch of cheesecake.

[3Phase]

I read here you want 4 ft lbs rolling torque on the drive input, so i'll adjust accordingly.

Dude, nice work with the 4mm nails as pins/plugs!



Just a caution on your final drive setup:

If you have a Type II final drive with the crush washer you want to see 3.4 to 4.3 inch-pounds, not foot-pounds, of bearing preload.

The torque value given for the pinion nut on the Type II is a range, not a static value, and it's for use with a new crush washer. With a new crush washer, somewhere between 72 and 108 foot-pounds of torque on the pinion nut should allow you to set between 3.4 to 4.3 inch-pounds of preload on the coupler or something is wrong and you need to recheck the final drive.

If you re-use the crush washer, just put some Loctite on the pinion nut and tighten it until you get the correct preload on the bearings.


If you have a Type I final drive that uses shims instead of a crush washer, tighten the pinion nut to 54 - 61 foot-pounds and look for 9 to 10 inch-pounds of bearing preload at the coupler.

[DGXSER]

Thanks Scott, I knew what I meant but the old finger brain connection failed again.

[BA80]

Your wrong about inch lbs on that type II Scott. 4 inch pounds wouldn't send a feather flying across the room.

It's 48 inch lbs or 4 ft lbs.

[DGXSER]

Fortunately we are just trying to spin a final drive and not toss any remnance of a winged critter around the room, since 3.4 IN lb to 4.3 IN lb is the correct bearing pre-load for a Type II, and yes 9-10 IN lbs is correct preload for a type I.

I just have yet to find anywhere to buy a tool to measure that with around here.

[BA80]

Well, OK

Do it your way. Mine has been running along for nearly 30,000 miles the wrong way.

There might be a reason there are no measuring tools that can measure that.

Suit yourself.

[3Phase]

The 7% Solution

Greg, the numbers are straight out of the Yamaha Shaft Drive manual pdf for the XS750, page 31 and 32.

No, I don't have an inch-pound wrench that will measure that low, either. Those kind of torque wrenches cost an insane amount of money but I can make a pretty close guesstimate by hand.

For your riding pleasure: 3.4 inch-pounds is pretty close to 7% of 4 foot-pounds so it's only about a 93% overtorque on the bearing preload. Go through the rest of your bike and overtorque everything by 93% and get back to me in another 30,000 smiles.

[BA80]

I'm 85% sure I can do that Scott, and 100% sure that your manual is wrong.

How can a specification be somthing that is less than immeasurable? 4 in lbs is less torque than it takes to pull a nose hair. Well, I'm 83.3701867318994% sure of that.

[3Phase]

Greg, it's not my manual.

FWIW I used to have a dial-type in-lb torque wrench like the PROTO 0-30 in-lb from W.W. Grainger but someone needed it more than I did and one day it grew legs and wandered off... in search of finer nose hairs or a couple of clean-shaven, Rubenesque gnats I have no doubt!

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[cywelchjr]

I'm 85% sure I can do that Scott, and 100% sure that your manual is wrong.

How can a specification be somthing that is less than immeasurable? 4 in lbs is less torque than it takes to pull a nose hair. Well, I'm 83.3701867318994% sure of that.

Greg, he's talking about how much twist is needed to turn the input shaft of the FD with no load on it, not how tight the nut is supposed to be. It should have very little resistance to turning, and that IS the number in the shaft drive manual from Yamaha, and they would have fixed that by the time they came out with the updates for the later models if it were a misprint. I'm not sure I've seen a differential with that kind of rotational resistance, not sure why an FD without the extra gearing for the two wheels would. Remember, it would be more likely for a misprint to have too high a value like the swingarm pivot bearing torque, being ft/lbs rather then the in/lbs it's supposed to be. And my yamaha FSM has the correct number in it.

[James England]

Greg, he's talking about how much twist is needed to turn the input shaft of the FD with no load on it, not how tight the nut is supposed to be.

COrrect! When I did mine, I felt the resistance of the OEM FD and matched it as closely as possible on the 750FD. As I posted at the time, I overdid the torque on the pinion nut (confused Type 1 and Type 2) and found the rear wheel very difficult to turn. I looked at it again, asked a few questions here and then put the correct torque on the pinion nut. Then the wheel felt right... just like the OEM drive